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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host and sometimes i feel

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like just a plebeian

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on a certiculous drive

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through this ufo topic you're gonna have

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to google that a friend of mine was uh

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and i was talking this weekend and she

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had some interesting words so i thought

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i'd

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look some of them up and that's what i

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anyway uh i want to thank you all for

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listening we have a fun show this

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evening uh we have ron feldberg he's to

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be talking about the mojave incident

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we're going to be getting into that

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we're going to take a little side step

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halfway through the show some part way

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through the show to talk about another

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book he's working on

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that's very interesting unfortunately

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it's not about ufos don't get mad at me

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about that thursday we have paul heineck

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on i'm really excited about this show

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because it has nothing to do with ufos

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we may mention it but he was he was part

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of a study out of stanford they did some

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gene therapy and he is the first person

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tested that's ever tested younger about

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four years younger with these therapies

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and uh so we're gonna be doing a show on

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the everything else show that's this

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coming thursday night and that's 8 p.m

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eastern time so you may want to check

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that out to get to those shows i am uh

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when i can i'll put those out in the

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mailing list to get on our mailing list

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for our weekly newsletter all you have

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to do is go to podcastufo.com

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and on the sidebar you'll see sign up

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for the weekly newsletter

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and so when i have those shows i think

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i'm going to throw out a newsletter for

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that but also you can subscribe to our

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youtube channel and just click the

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little button the little bell and

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that'll give you that will send you

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email notifications of when i have a

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stream going up because those shows are

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going to be done on random nights random

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topics about things that i find

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interesting you may not so you can skip

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the ones you don't find particularly

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interesting

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the blog this evening is uh by charles

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lee or as usual

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it's become like a four-part series now

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the

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1976 ufo encounter in kentucky and this

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week he talks about the investigation he

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has one more

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um let's see in that one i think is the

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evidence that is how he's going to top

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that one off on the four

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part four series of that so uh i want to

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thank everyone that supports the show

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and anyone that wants to do that all you

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have to do is go to patreon or go

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through our website podcastufo.com

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under support the show

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under that tab and you can support the

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show there if you'd like i do appreciate

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every single listener thank you all i

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i've been getting some wonderful

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feedback unfortunately i'm getting a lot

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of email that i just um and i've said

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this a number of times and people kind

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of tease me about it but it's much

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better to send me brief emails instead

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of these four page ones because um i

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have uh some type of adhd or something

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like that i have a hard time reading

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those very long emails a lot of people

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are sending me their sightings i do have

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on my website

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podcastufo.com i have a tab for if

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someone would like to anonymously post

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their sightings also there's information

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for mufon

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and peter davenport's site new fork

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where you can report your sites as well

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either way i welcome your email and i

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will try to respond to every one of them

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i know i'm behind

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it's been pretty busy and i will try to

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get to all of your emails

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so

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that is about enough of me talking and i

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think it's time for me to bring in

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our guest he's a noted author he used to

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be a policeman at one time and he did

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some research and a great book on the

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mojave incident you're not going to find

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a whole lot about it if you're

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researching

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online so i'd like to have these type of

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stories

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and to find out more information about

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them ron welcome to the show

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good to be here martin thank you yes and

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uh so

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as always i do appreciate um we for you

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to come on and talk about this this is

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an old book it's not a new book right

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yeah actually it was published under the

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title searchers uh originally and that

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would have been uh you know back a few

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years then

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it did very well and so we

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republished it and uh in some new

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editions under the title mojave incident

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now did i

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i know i haven't talked about this off

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here or anything

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but do i recall a movie that was

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something like this in a desert and

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people in a camper or something like

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that

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well you know paranormal witness did um

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did a show an hour documentary on the

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mojave incident i guess about uh two or

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three years ago

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and also um beyond belief

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did they uh did an als also an hour

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documentary on it so yes oh

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before i forgot to do this in my

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monologue and that is i wanted to pay

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tribute to someone we lost yesterday and

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that's donald trump uh i'm sorry douglas

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trumbull uh douglas is a past guest on

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the show but he's an ama he was an

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amazing person

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he was a special effects um

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producer he's known for the space

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odyssey 2001 space odyssey uh that was

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one of his big ones

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many many through the year real fine

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gentlemen a real close to

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a real close friend to mark d'antonio i

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called him today and uh so he will be

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missed and uh so i just wanted to pass

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that along um

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anyway so as we continue sorry about

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that i had just forgotten to talk about

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it and uh and

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anyway he was a he was a past guest i

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got to meet him out in phoenix and and a

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real swell real swell gentleman

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and

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your involvement in i guess i have to

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ask you this ron i always ask people to

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talk a little bit about their background

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and how they got interested in this

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topic but

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i do want to know

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um how you found out about this topic

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and you wrote about it and why why isn't

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it out there

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if for someone to research i mean it's

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it's pretty major right i mean as a

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matter of fact i mean a lot of people

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one of the critics called it the the

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most frightening ufo book ever written

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and uh you know some others uh have said

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that it's uh

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it's a must read for anybody not only

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interested in the topic but anybody

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that's interested in the possibilities

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of human existence

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and so um the way i came upon it i was

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not a

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ufologist

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i was a writer doing uh thrillers i

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wrote the nick carter series i did some

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work for true detective magazine

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and uh a few novels but uh i was also

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running a company

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and this would have been back uh

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you know back in um

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2015 that kind of time time frame maybe

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a little before that

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and there was a fellow that worked for

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me

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the west coast i was on the east coast

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and so when i went to the west coast on

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business i would have a dinner with him

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and maybe a drink or two

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and um

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as we got to be friends he knew i was a

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writer of course

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and

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told me about his best friend

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who he had played varsity football with

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at the university of redlands

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and

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the

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incident that happened to him that

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really changed his life changed his

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wife's life and changed his family's

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life

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um

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something that he was you know morbidly

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shy

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about discussing and very reluctant

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because he considered it really deeply

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personal

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but um

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since this was his best friend and i was

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a very good friend of his he thought it

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would maybe

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be therapeutic in some way for this

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fellow and his wife this would be

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stephen dawn hess to tell me their story

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from my standpoint

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i

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story per se

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but because he was my friend

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i agreed to meet with them in california

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and i was just uh staggered

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by the story

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and the the uh the depth and the breadth

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of the story and how credible these

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people were and so i decided to work

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with them and uh we worked very hard

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enough for a couple of years

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putting the story together verifying

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things with psychologists and

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psychiatrists

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and even a polygraph test and

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retrogressive hypnosis

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so

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as you mentioned i was a policeman i was

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a a deputy sheriff and i worked with

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federal prisoners for

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about three years so i approached this

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like a detective would

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i was going to ask you that

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and i

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of policemen former policemen retired

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on this show over the years every single

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one of them

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say the same thing it was very helpful

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and also observing

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the witness

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uh testimony yes um you know the the

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watching for the for the key

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um elements that

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look you know real or not so real when

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they're uh you know authentic

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yeah and the other thing too is just the

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backgrounds of of these individuals the

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husband was um

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was uh a project manager so he was in

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charge of construction uh programs like

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for shopping malls

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and you know so multi-million dollar

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budgets a lot of people working under

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him and for him

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and so he was an incredibly credible you

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know very credible individual uh they

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had two children and his wife dawn

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was equally credible she was a college

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graduate they were college sweethearts

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and and uh got married

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and uh

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really from

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all

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any way you wanted to approach it this

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is sort of the backbone of america kind

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of people you know very straightforward

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very credible

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not prone to fantasy or anything like

283
00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:10,320
that you know this is a construction men

284
00:11:16,150 --> 00:11:12,160
involved with construction

285
00:11:18,949 --> 00:11:16,160
so uh and and uh sort of a man's man a

286
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:18,959
hunter a former uh varsity football

287
00:11:21,430 --> 00:11:20,560
player in college

288
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:21,440
um

289
00:11:26,829 --> 00:11:23,760
somebody that you had to take seriously

290
00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:26,839
if they say this happened you had to

291
00:11:31,590 --> 00:11:30,240
listen you're right right so let's let's

292
00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:31,600
hear the

293
00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:33,120
their story

294
00:11:35,829 --> 00:11:34,720
and what you got

295
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:35,839
from them

296
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:37,920
um set the whole thing up if you would

297
00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:40,320
how it all all began and

298
00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:42,640
and the whole incident yeah i'll i'll do

299
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:44,320
my best it's

300
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:46,320
you know i talk about it like it sort of

301
00:11:49,269 --> 00:11:47,519
was

302
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:49,279
pulling a curtain back on it on a

303
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:50,800
different reality

304
00:11:55,430 --> 00:11:53,279
it is this isn't like

305
00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:55,440
somebody that's you know in montana or

306
00:11:58,949 --> 00:11:56,800
in the midwest

307
00:12:01,670 --> 00:11:58,959
driving a you know a long distance hall

308
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:01,680
on in a truck stops and sees something

309
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:04,639
and takes a picture of it or or you know

310
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:07,519
tells somebody about it later this was a

311
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:08,880
full-blown

312
00:12:13,829 --> 00:12:11,519
scenario that took place over the course

313
00:12:15,870 --> 00:12:13,839
of maybe 12 hours

314
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:15,880
with two individuals

315
00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:17,920
simultaneously witnessing the same

316
00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:20,399
things again with duration

317
00:12:25,829 --> 00:12:21,200
so

318
00:12:27,509 --> 00:12:25,839
a real

319
00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:27,519
being immersed

320
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:30,880
into another world

321
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:32,800
it it started out

322
00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:34,480
like a lot of things do i guess with

323
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:36,800
married couples with new children

324
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:38,639
so they had uh

325
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:40,480
two children at the time

326
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:42,320
and i believe the ages were four and two

327
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:43,600
and a half

328
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:44,800
and uh

329
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:46,800
so the the mom who was a full-time

330
00:12:51,590 --> 00:12:48,959
stay-at-home mom at the time

331
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:51,600
uh you know wanted to get away

332
00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:54,320
she had her he had he had his parents as

333
00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:55,680
babysitters

334
00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:57,680
so the grandparents offered to babysit

335
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:58,880
for a weekend

336
00:13:01,430 --> 00:13:00,720
and the wife said you know i just want

337
00:13:06,870 --> 00:13:01,440
to

338
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:06,880
dinner out

339
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:08,880
and that's what i'm looking for for the

340
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:10,000
weekend

341
00:13:12,790 --> 00:13:11,360
in the meantime the husband had

342
00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:12,800
different ideas

343
00:13:17,190 --> 00:13:14,880
this was his vacation too and he'd been

344
00:13:19,750 --> 00:13:17,200
working really hard on the

345
00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:19,760
construction of a of a mall

346
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:21,519
and so uh

347
00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:23,839
a year prior to that he'd been hunting

348
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:26,560
with his father and his brother

349
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:28,079
and he missed

350
00:13:32,150 --> 00:13:29,920
a fairly easy shot

351
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:32,160
at a mule deer in the mojave desert

352
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:35,440
where they were hunting the father was

353
00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:38,079
philosophical about it the brother not

354
00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:39,120
so much

355
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:41,040
he gave him a real hard time about

356
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:43,920
missing the shot and so he was hell-bent

357
00:13:49,590 --> 00:13:46,160
on going back to the mojave

358
00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:49,600
and getting the mule deer

359
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:50,959
so

360
00:13:53,150 --> 00:13:52,560
this obviously wasn't in the wife's

361
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:53,160
plans

362
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:55,279
[Laughter]

363
00:13:59,189 --> 00:13:57,360
so being the intelligent couple that

364
00:14:00,550 --> 00:13:59,199
they that they are

365
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:00,560
they made a compromise and the

366
00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:03,360
compromise was that they would uh

367
00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:06,000
it would go to the mojave but on the way

368
00:14:10,710 --> 00:14:09,040
there was a place called whiskey pete's

369
00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:10,720
and they would stop at whiskey pete's

370
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:12,000
they have a

371
00:14:15,030 --> 00:14:13,680
you know a good dinner

372
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:15,040
there was a band that would play you

373
00:14:19,189 --> 00:14:16,880
know country music they would do some

374
00:14:21,910 --> 00:14:19,199
dancing they'd have a couple of drinks

375
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:21,920
and that would be you know her night out

376
00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:23,680
from there they would drive a short

377
00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:26,560
distance to the mid hills campsite

378
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:28,720
and they would stay there overnight

379
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:30,880
and then go into the mojave

380
00:14:34,629 --> 00:14:32,880
and do his honey

381
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:34,639
and they'd camp out in a camper that

382
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:36,480
they had

383
00:14:40,629 --> 00:14:38,240
so uh

384
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:40,639
all seemed like it was going well the

385
00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:41,920
the uh

386
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:44,320
the grandparents came and they were on

387
00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:45,680
their way

388
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:47,760
and they did go to whiskey pete and they

389
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:49,440
did the dancing that they wanted to and

390
00:14:53,189 --> 00:14:51,760
had the the dinner that they wanted

391
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:53,199
but when they got to the mid hills

392
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:55,839
campsite very much out of

393
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:56,720
um

394
00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:00,079
the ordinary it was completely sold out

395
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:03,279
so they had no place to camp

396
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:05,279
well this was kind of a you know a

397
00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:07,040
disappointment to

398
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:08,240
to steve

399
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:10,560
but more than a disappointment to uh

400
00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:13,440
dawn because the alternative was to go

401
00:15:16,629 --> 00:15:15,040
into the desert

402
00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:16,639
where they were going to go hunting in

403
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:17,839
their camper

404
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:21,040
into a very you know desolate area

405
00:15:24,629 --> 00:15:23,120
a near tabletop mountain in the new york

406
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:24,639
mountain range

407
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:27,199
and she uh

408
00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:28,079
she

409
00:15:32,949 --> 00:15:30,320
had misgivings

410
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:32,959
she had read articles that you know the

411
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:35,040
motorcycle gangs

412
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:36,880
did drugs there and there were drug

413
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:38,639
transactions and occasionally they'd

414
00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:39,680
find

415
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:41,920
you know somebody dead a dead body or

416
00:15:45,749 --> 00:15:43,600
something and some kind of

417
00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:45,759
drug deal that went wrong

418
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:49,360
and she was very uh concerned about that

419
00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:50,480
and so

420
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:52,160
they went anyway

421
00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:54,959
and steve promised her a nice steak

422
00:15:59,269 --> 00:15:56,720
dinner that they'd make a campfire it

423
00:16:00,949 --> 00:15:59,279
would be romantic etc

424
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:00,959
and they did

425
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:03,360
so they went to the uh into the desert

426
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:06,240
again very desolate area

427
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:08,560
um surrounded by mountains

428
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:09,839
and kind of a

429
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:11,360
a valley

430
00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:12,720
you know with the mountains surrounding

431
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:13,920
it

432
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:16,880
and um they made the campfire

433
00:16:21,509 --> 00:16:19,440
they uh had a uh

434
00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:21,519
some wine they

435
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:23,680
ate a steak or two

436
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:24,639
and

437
00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:27,440
as the evening started to fall

438
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:29,040
steve

439
00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:30,480
who had had a

440
00:16:35,749 --> 00:16:32,720
a ufo experience

441
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:35,759
when he was 12 years old

442
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:37,600
he'd been fishing and camping with his

443
00:16:41,110 --> 00:16:39,279
parents and another

444
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:41,120
set of parents and he and his friend

445
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:42,639
were fishing

446
00:16:48,069 --> 00:16:44,480
and he had this vivid

447
00:16:51,590 --> 00:16:48,079
memory you know etched into his mind

448
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,600
of a ufo that appeared over lake mohave

449
00:16:55,350 --> 00:16:53,279
while they were fishing

450
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:55,360
and seemed to follow them

451
00:16:58,550 --> 00:16:57,040
and they ran from it they dropped their

452
00:17:00,629 --> 00:16:58,560
fishing rods and ran

453
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:00,639
they ran back to their parents and told

454
00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:02,959
them that there was a flying saucer

455
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:04,959
and their parents of course who

456
00:17:07,990 --> 00:17:06,720
were having a good time with their

457
00:17:09,909 --> 00:17:08,000
neighbors

458
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:09,919
weren't too uh didn't see that as a very

459
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:11,520
credible thing and sort of laughed it

460
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:12,480
off

461
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:14,240
but to steve

462
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:16,799
it was not a laughing matter

463
00:17:20,789 --> 00:17:19,039
it was something that would really made

464
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:20,799
an impression on him

465
00:17:25,909 --> 00:17:23,600
so while they're at the campfire and

466
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:25,919
darkness is starting to fall

467
00:17:30,950 --> 00:17:27,679
he he feels

468
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:30,960
this sensation of being watched

469
00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:32,480
so he looks to his right over his

470
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:33,600
shoulder

471
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:36,080
and almost

472
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:38,240
like somebody peeking from behind the

473
00:17:42,390 --> 00:17:39,600
mountain

474
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:42,400
a ufo appears

475
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:45,760
maybe 30 feet in diameter just

476
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:49,120
juts out he looks at it it looks at him

477
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:52,080
or seems to and slips back behind the

478
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,000
mountain

479
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:56,640
now dawn who is already

480
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:58,160
nervous

481
00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:00,240
he doesn't want to say anything about it

482
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:02,960
because the last thing she needs to hear

483
00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:04,880
is that he just saw a ufo

484
00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:07,039
right

485
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:08,000
so he

486
00:18:12,470 --> 00:18:11,039
he buries it you know himself yeah and

487
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:12,480
they go on

488
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:14,480
and uh later in the evening they are

489
00:18:18,950 --> 00:18:16,559
stargazing

490
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:18,960
so steve uh who it's a really

491
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:22,160
intelligent guy and very well informed

492
00:18:26,950 --> 00:18:24,880
uh you know knew the constellations and

493
00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:26,960
and how they were set up

494
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:30,160
and uh he's explaining to his wife well

495
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:32,240
this is this particular constellation

496
00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:33,840
and you see that see how the stars are

497
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:34,720
here

498
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:38,400
double star and you can see that it's

499
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:40,400
it's brighter than the others and it's

500
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:42,960
its shape is a little different

501
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:44,400
so she says

502
00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:47,039
well that's a double star

503
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:49,919
this one must be a triple star

504
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:52,320
and uh in the mountain range

505
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:53,760
um

506
00:19:00,150 --> 00:18:57,360
not far away i would say 400 yards away

507
00:19:01,029 --> 00:19:00,160
500 yards away above the mountain is

508
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:01,039
this

509
00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:06,480
so steve swallows hard

510
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:09,120
swallows hard when he sees this

511
00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:10,400
because

512
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:12,240
all of this starts to come together from

513
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:14,000
the time he was 12

514
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:16,480
to the sighting he had just had

515
00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:17,440
to this

516
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:20,000
which he has no explanation for

517
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:22,320
it's not a triple star

518
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:25,120
um

519
00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:27,600
they they talk about that for a moment

520
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:29,520
and dawn understands that he's a little

521
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:30,320
bit

522
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:32,160
shaken now

523
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:34,240
and as they're watching as they're

524
00:19:38,630 --> 00:19:35,600
observing

525
00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:38,640
the one glowing orb becomes nine glowing

526
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:40,000
orbs

527
00:19:42,630 --> 00:19:41,520
and over the

528
00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:42,640
mountain

529
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:43,760
range

530
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:46,480
again maybe 500 yards from them

531
00:19:53,190 --> 00:19:48,720
the nine glowing orbs

532
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:53,200
form the configuration of an m

533
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:55,360
and uh

534
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:56,720
oh so

535
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:58,240
dawn looks to him

536
00:20:01,510 --> 00:19:59,840
what you know what's going on what what

537
00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:01,520
what is that

538
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:03,280
and the only thing he can think of is

539
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:05,120
maybe it's a

540
00:20:08,149 --> 00:20:06,240
it's uh

541
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:08,159
that nella's air force base is not too

542
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:10,240
far away that maybe it's um some

543
00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:12,080
experimental craft

544
00:20:15,909 --> 00:20:13,360
or some

545
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:15,919
crap that are on a maneuver or or

546
00:20:20,710 --> 00:20:17,280
testing

547
00:20:22,630 --> 00:20:20,720
and so he says that but

548
00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:22,640
while they're saying that

549
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:24,320
the nine become

550
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:25,520
dozens

551
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:31,280
and the noise in the desert at night is

552
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:33,200
noisy

553
00:20:39,909 --> 00:20:34,960
stops

554
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:42,789
the valley is capped

555
00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:44,480
as if it's capped

556
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:47,360
you mean like a vacuum of noise yes no

557
00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:50,400
noise and just the feeling that

558
00:20:57,029 --> 00:20:51,840
that

559
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:57,039
ceiling almost

560
00:20:59,590 --> 00:20:58,080
so

561
00:21:03,190 --> 00:20:59,600
now they're

562
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:03,200
moving towards a kind of panic

563
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:07,360
a voice a telepathic voice very clear

564
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:09,280
in dawn's head

565
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:12,159
says don't do anything rash

566
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:14,080
we're not going to harm you

567
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:16,000
you know don't do anything rash in the

568
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:17,280
meantime

569
00:21:20,870 --> 00:21:19,360
steve runs to the uh

570
00:21:22,789 --> 00:21:20,880
camper

571
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:22,799
gets out a shotgun

572
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:24,400
and a browning rifle that he was going

573
00:21:30,230 --> 00:21:26,480
to be using for hunting

574
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,240
and and is is ready to defend now they

575
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:32,000
don't think about a maneuver because

576
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:33,440
it's so massive

577
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:35,840
they think it's an invasion

578
00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:36,960
they think

579
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:39,440
that that maybe

580
00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:40,960
maybe it's a

581
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:42,880
the russians or that's the first thing

582
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:44,480
that came to their mind it's it's the

583
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:46,320
russians this is about

584
00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:47,200
wow

585
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:48,640
and um

586
00:21:53,350 --> 00:21:51,520
so steve is ready to defend i mean as

587
00:21:55,430 --> 00:21:53,360
ridiculous as that sound people in

588
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:55,440
moments of panic do things that aren't

589
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:56,799
necessarily

590
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:59,360
totally rational but he he picks up the

591
00:22:03,430 --> 00:22:00,799
the guns

592
00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:03,440
and then dawn hears another sort of

593
00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:04,720
voice

594
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:09,669
put the gun down

595
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,600
don't try to fight us or we'll kill you

596
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:15,360
oh geez

597
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:17,360
she she takes the gun and pulls it down

598
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:19,200
said don't don't do that

599
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:21,280
and now he hears the voice

600
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:23,840
and the voice says get in the camper put

601
00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:25,520
the guns down

602
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:27,360
sit in the camper behind the back of the

603
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:30,320
camper so almost

604
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:33,360
almost as if uh in a daze or

605
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:36,080
in a robotic sort of way

606
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:38,159
they walk to the back of the camper like

607
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:41,039
people that are hypnotized and they sit

608
00:22:45,029 --> 00:22:42,720
indian style

609
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:45,039
him with the guns across his lap

610
00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:46,720
and her next to him

611
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:51,510
soon after

612
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:54,159
they look out of the camper window and

613
00:22:57,750 --> 00:22:56,080
they see the

614
00:23:00,710 --> 00:22:57,760
hundreds of

615
00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:00,720
orbs dropping to the ground

616
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:03,120
and as they drop to the ground

617
00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:05,200
there's an onrushing of what they

618
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:07,360
describe as gremlins

619
00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:09,840
red eyes and so in the night what they

620
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:11,280
see are pairs

621
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:14,400
hundreds of pairs of red eyes

622
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:16,720
rushing towards them

623
00:23:20,789 --> 00:23:18,480
so

624
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:20,799
this is of course again they're starting

625
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:21,840
to feel like they're going to have a

626
00:23:25,430 --> 00:23:23,600
heart attack or something

627
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:25,440
and they try to move

628
00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:28,960
but again what emerges are two

629
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:32,000
almost like fire plugs

630
00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:34,559
that are electrified

631
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:35,679
and so

632
00:23:40,149 --> 00:23:38,240
when they move forward a foot

633
00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:40,159
it moves for these two things move

634
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:41,520
forward a foot

635
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:43,600
and there's an electrical charge

636
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:46,559
so when steve tries to leave the camper

637
00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:49,200
he gets jolted back by this uh by this

638
00:23:53,669 --> 00:23:52,480
tremendous force of electricity

639
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:53,679
and uh

640
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,200
i guess you don't try that more than

641
00:24:01,190 --> 00:23:57,360
once or twice before you realize you're

642
00:24:03,430 --> 00:24:01,200
trapped can you can you explain that

643
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:03,440
what you mean exactly like this is

644
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:05,440
something that came inside the camper

645
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:06,400
yes

646
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:08,080
at the library

647
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:09,840
what did it look like

648
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:12,240
um they call them like stumps that's

649
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:14,400
what they call them like stumps that's

650
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:16,640
the way they describe them

651
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:19,760
so if you think of maybe a fire hydrant

652
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:21,679
yeah yeah something you know that maybe

653
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:24,400
is a a couple of feet high

654
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:27,120
and uh maybe

655
00:24:31,669 --> 00:24:29,120
eight or ten inches across

656
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:31,679
but electrified and two of them

657
00:24:36,149 --> 00:24:33,279
so that basically

658
00:24:37,909 --> 00:24:36,159
this is a an electrified fence think of

659
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:37,919
it that way think of an invisible fence

660
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:39,600
for a dog

661
00:24:42,789 --> 00:24:41,760
and this thing just popped up in there

662
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:42,799
yeah

663
00:24:48,630 --> 00:24:44,159
yes

664
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:48,640
trapped and

665
00:24:53,590 --> 00:24:51,360
obviously this is a terrible feeling

666
00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:53,600
the red eye i'll call them gremlins

667
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:55,679
because that's the word that they use

668
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:57,120
are malevolent

669
00:25:01,830 --> 00:24:59,360
they're in a frenzy these things are are

670
00:25:03,909 --> 00:25:01,840
are um

671
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:03,919
full of energy frenzied

672
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:06,880
um animalistic they have like leather

673
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:09,520
kind of faces you know black faces that

674
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:11,520
are leather that leathery

675
00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:14,480
shiny red eyes like lasers

676
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:15,440
and

677
00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:17,600
they surround the camper they're on top

678
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:19,120
of the camper they're in the trees

679
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:20,480
they're everywhere

680
00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:22,480
and frenetic

681
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:24,080
frenetic

682
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:25,440
so

683
00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:28,000
at this point

684
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:30,080
this would be the first set of

685
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,840
beings if you want to call them that

686
00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:33,520
dwarfish

687
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:36,080
almost diabolical

688
00:25:39,590 --> 00:25:37,760
and um

689
00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:39,600
what happens next

690
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:40,400
is

691
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:43,360
they they look up or look around

692
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:44,320
and

693
00:25:48,789 --> 00:25:45,600
above them

694
00:25:51,669 --> 00:25:48,799
is a a huge ufo

695
00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:51,679
that literally that they can see now

696
00:25:55,110 --> 00:25:52,960
now wait a minute they're in they're in

697
00:25:57,110 --> 00:25:55,120
the camper how can they see above them

698
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:57,120
they have the they have um

699
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:59,600
windows so there's the camper and it has

700
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:01,840
a window in the front and windows on the

701
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:02,720
side

702
00:26:06,630 --> 00:26:04,480
so they could see this thing

703
00:26:08,789 --> 00:26:06,640
that it looked like it was over them

704
00:26:11,510 --> 00:26:08,799
like at an angle or something yeah but

705
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:11,520
it was huge so this thing is so big that

706
00:26:15,909 --> 00:26:13,520
it capped the valley so in other words

707
00:26:18,630 --> 00:26:15,919
if you think of um

708
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:18,640
if you think of your purview like this

709
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:20,480
you can look up but this thing they're

710
00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:21,840
talking about something the size of a

711
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:24,080
football field

712
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:25,679
and they're talking about it not being

713
00:26:30,149 --> 00:26:28,080
you know uh thousands of feet up you're

714
00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:30,159
talking about something that that maybe

715
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:34,000
is 100 feet up 150 feet up so i mean

716
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:36,000
it's very visible to them and not on

717
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:40,240
that they can feel it um

718
00:26:45,269 --> 00:26:42,320
a beam of light

719
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:45,279
a probe they called it with a diameter

720
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:47,520
of about 30 feet

721
00:26:50,710 --> 00:26:48,720
starts to

722
00:26:52,870 --> 00:26:50,720
send things up

723
00:26:55,269 --> 00:26:52,880
pick up things and they see

724
00:26:59,750 --> 00:26:55,279
like um

725
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:59,760
uh desert animals and uh cactus and

726
00:27:03,430 --> 00:27:01,600
trees and things like being sucked up

727
00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:03,440
into the um

728
00:27:07,260 --> 00:27:04,840
into this huge

729
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:07,270
ufo and

730
00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:08,640
[Music]

731
00:27:18,070 --> 00:27:15,830
vehicle that they call a searcher

732
00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:18,080
and the searcher starts to comb the

733
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:20,480
desert basin

734
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:21,600
and um

735
00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:24,480
they smell a smell a lot like a burning

736
00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:26,240
rubber

737
00:27:31,029 --> 00:27:28,000
or sulfur

738
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:31,039
and they feel the ground shaking

739
00:27:35,669 --> 00:27:32,559
and

740
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:35,679
they think that in retrospect they think

741
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:38,000
that maybe it's a mining operation of

742
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:39,360
some kind

743
00:27:43,669 --> 00:27:41,760
that that they're calling the desert for

744
00:27:46,149 --> 00:27:43,679
looking looking for minerals

745
00:27:48,549 --> 00:27:46,159
or um or something

746
00:27:50,950 --> 00:27:48,559
and and it's a search so they called it

747
00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:50,960
their searcher

748
00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:52,960
so they're observing this

749
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:55,919
this tremendous odor around them

750
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:58,240
suffocating odor they're trapped in this

751
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:03,430
they're watching the the searcher comb

752
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:05,600
comb the uh the basin of the of the

753
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:06,640
desert

754
00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:09,760
the probe is bringing things up

755
00:28:13,750 --> 00:28:11,360
and uh

756
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:13,760
in this in this light this incredibly

757
00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:15,440
white light

758
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:17,360
and what's beamed down then

759
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:20,480
are nine other beings

760
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:23,120
and these are what they call illuminated

761
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:24,399
figures

762
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:25,360
they're

763
00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:26,480
bright

764
00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:28,000
like white

765
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:29,600
and um

766
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:32,080
they are surround the camper

767
00:28:36,070 --> 00:28:34,080
uh when the shades are pulled

768
00:28:38,389 --> 00:28:36,080
the curtains are pulled on the on the

769
00:28:40,149 --> 00:28:38,399
camper window it makes no difference

770
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:40,159
these things are so

771
00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:42,720
illuminated

772
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:46,880
and um they talked about this particular

773
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:51,750
like scientists

774
00:28:55,510 --> 00:28:53,760
they they were studying them

775
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:55,520
they they were surrounding the camera

776
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:58,720
and were studying them and they got

777
00:29:01,909 --> 00:28:59,840
mental

778
00:29:03,190 --> 00:29:01,919
telepathic

779
00:29:05,269 --> 00:29:03,200
signals

780
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:05,279
that they were being studied

781
00:29:09,029 --> 00:29:06,399
and that

782
00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:09,039
they were being observed

783
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:10,559
and

784
00:29:15,269 --> 00:29:12,640
at that point

785
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:15,279
there it became i i won't say torture

786
00:29:22,149 --> 00:29:16,720
because

787
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:24,470
the intent i don't think

788
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:27,520
was to torture but in in effect that's

789
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:28,960
what it was

790
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:31,360
because they were put through a battery

791
00:29:35,269 --> 00:29:34,240
of uh emotions

792
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:35,279
so would they

793
00:29:41,029 --> 00:29:37,039
pardon me were they ever physically

794
00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:41,039
examined or is this all at a distance uh

795
00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:44,000
we we'll get to that oh okay

796
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:46,000
well another thing while we're while i'm

797
00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:48,240
pausing you here yeah sure is were they

798
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:49,039
like

799
00:29:52,789 --> 00:29:50,240
just

800
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:52,799
absolutely freaking out how are they

801
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:55,279
handling this that's that's really a

802
00:29:58,310 --> 00:29:56,640
good question

803
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:58,320
and um

804
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:00,559
they thought they were in hell

805
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:02,480
they thought they had died and were in

806
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:03,440
hell

807
00:30:06,789 --> 00:30:05,279
they thought that um

808
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:06,799
they were

809
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:08,799
having heart attacks

810
00:30:12,789 --> 00:30:10,080
and um

811
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:12,799
they were pinching each other literally

812
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:15,760
and saying uh tell me exactly what you

813
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:18,240
see describe to me exactly what you're

814
00:30:21,350 --> 00:30:20,480
seeing to make sure that

815
00:30:24,950 --> 00:30:21,360
that

816
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:24,960
bizarre dream and they really were

817
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:27,120
together and they really were seeing the

818
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:28,320
same things

819
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:31,200
and so they would describe to each other

820
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:33,760
the detail of what they were seeing

821
00:30:37,830 --> 00:30:35,520
and of course they realized that it was

822
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:37,840
more than real it was super real

823
00:30:41,269 --> 00:30:39,760
and um

824
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:41,279
when they felt

825
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:44,000
their chests were about to explode

826
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:46,960
a kind of mist came into the camper

827
00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:53,830
trying to think of the word a

828
00:30:59,269 --> 00:30:58,000
suppressant to uh to calm them

829
00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:59,279
and so

830
00:31:03,430 --> 00:31:00,799
they realized

831
00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:03,440
at some point in time that probably they

832
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:06,640
would have died were not for this mist

833
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:09,919
that sedated them or or calmed them like

834
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:13,200
a tranquilizer effect

835
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:14,240
um

836
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:17,200
but they they needed to be kept alive

837
00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:18,960
because

838
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:21,760
these illuminated beings like scientists

839
00:31:26,149 --> 00:31:23,840
were experimenting on

840
00:31:29,269 --> 00:31:26,159
they didn't want them to die

841
00:31:30,549 --> 00:31:29,279
and so they were kept alive

842
00:31:31,669 --> 00:31:30,559
at that point

843
00:31:34,070 --> 00:31:31,679
as i say

844
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:34,080
they started praying

845
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:37,120
uh they worried about gone worried about

846
00:31:41,269 --> 00:31:39,200
their children at home

847
00:31:43,190 --> 00:31:41,279
that that somehow they were involved in

848
00:31:44,389 --> 00:31:43,200
all of this and that they were in grave

849
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:44,399
danger

850
00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:45,679
uh so

851
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:49,519
it was a hellish nightmarish

852
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:51,039
experience

853
00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:53,919
and and even a word like torture

854
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:55,760
doesn't capture it because

855
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:58,240
you know torture can be for a period of

856
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:00,399
time but this was sustained

857
00:32:03,669 --> 00:32:02,320
and what what they were forced to do was

858
00:32:05,350 --> 00:32:03,679
to relive

859
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:05,360
emotions

860
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:07,039
so for example i'll give you one i don't

861
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:08,559
want to dwell on

862
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:12,720
one of the reasons that dawn was

863
00:32:17,269 --> 00:32:15,600
concerned about going into the desert

864
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:17,279
was because she had been assaulted

865
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:20,399
molested as a child

866
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:22,480
and so she was forced

867
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:23,760
not to

868
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:24,880
remember

869
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:26,640
but to relive

870
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:29,600
those experiences because they wanted to

871
00:32:35,350 --> 00:32:32,720
evoke the emotion that that

872
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:35,360
experience created

873
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:38,000
so if it was terror if it was

874
00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:39,440
humiliation

875
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:43,200
if it was shame they they wanted

876
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:45,360
to evoke those emotions

877
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:46,559
in um

878
00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:48,960
in steve's case and sometimes they were

879
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:50,640
like joyous moments

880
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:52,480
sometimes there were moments of triumph

881
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:55,120
let's say as a football player

882
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:57,279
since he was a hunter

883
00:33:02,470 --> 00:32:58,559
he

884
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:02,480
being hunted

885
00:33:06,149 --> 00:33:04,240
like an animal

886
00:33:08,230 --> 00:33:06,159
and hunters were chasing him and he was

887
00:33:11,269 --> 00:33:08,240
in you know a med

888
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:11,279
dash to get away and to hide and whatnot

889
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:12,640
and eventually

890
00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:14,640
in this scenario

891
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:18,080
he's wounded can't go on

892
00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:20,000
the hunters capture him

893
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:22,159
the hunters gut him

894
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,480
and uh basically and that's that's

895
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:26,880
another one of the experiences that he

896
00:33:32,549 --> 00:33:30,399
he lived or relived or was forced to but

897
00:33:34,950 --> 00:33:32,559
again the idea

898
00:33:36,789 --> 00:33:34,960
was to evoke emotion

899
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:36,799
sadness fear

900
00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:39,440
uh joy exaltation

901
00:33:41,669 --> 00:33:40,640
uh so

902
00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:41,679
so

903
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:46,960
that dawn had was with her child

904
00:33:49,990 --> 00:33:48,399
and the the

905
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:50,000
vision or the the

906
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:53,200
vignette that she was forced to live in

907
00:33:56,789 --> 00:33:55,360
was that her child um

908
00:34:01,509 --> 00:33:56,799
uh

909
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:01,519
with with a defect

910
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:03,200
and that when she went to see the child

911
00:34:07,669 --> 00:34:05,120
the child was uh

912
00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:07,679
was not normal was a monstrous uh

913
00:34:11,829 --> 00:34:09,919
monstrous child

914
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:11,839
and so they were envisioning these type

915
00:34:14,869 --> 00:34:13,200
of things

916
00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:14,879
i i you know i

917
00:34:17,909 --> 00:34:16,800
i want to make it clear

918
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,919
more than

919
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:19,440
envisioning

920
00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:22,480
being in the scenario being in it living

921
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:23,520
it

922
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:25,839
okay so

923
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:26,639
and so

924
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:28,560
pardon me just just one second i'm just

925
00:34:32,230 --> 00:34:30,800
trying to lay this out and

926
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:32,240
i think it's important for the listener

927
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:34,800
that's why of course yes um

928
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:38,159
these illuminated figures yeah that

929
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:40,240
i'm picturing them they're outside the

930
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:41,760
camper are they inside the camper

931
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:43,599
they're now they're outside

932
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:46,159
but they're they're all doing this

933
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:48,480
they're somehow doing this through the

934
00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:50,000
walls of the camper and they're just

935
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:51,679
fastened right in there

936
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:53,359
exactly the way they're seated in the

937
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:55,280
back of their camp with those and again

938
00:34:58,230 --> 00:34:57,119
if you picture the camper the camper had

939
00:35:03,270 --> 00:34:58,240
windows

940
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:03,280
each side yeah and then the uh the back

941
00:35:07,829 --> 00:35:05,680
of the camper was open

942
00:35:09,589 --> 00:35:07,839
yeah and on the lip of it were these two

943
00:35:12,150 --> 00:35:09,599
uh uh

944
00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:12,160
electrified beings or or devices or

945
00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:14,560
whatever that trap them in there

946
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:16,320
yeah the illuminated figures they

947
00:35:19,270 --> 00:35:18,240
described very vividly

948
00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:19,280
um

949
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:21,520
they had uh

950
00:35:25,589 --> 00:35:23,760
a mouth like a slit

951
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:25,599
two holes for

952
00:35:28,069 --> 00:35:27,040
a nose

953
00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:28,079
um

954
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:29,440
a uh

955
00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:31,760
they were the grays i mean as you know

956
00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:34,400
people would describe him large eyes

957
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:35,839
and um

958
00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:40,560
that's what of course was the most

959
00:35:45,030 --> 00:35:42,480
salient feature

960
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:45,040
and dawn describes looking in the eyes

961
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:45,839
of

962
00:35:49,829 --> 00:35:47,280
these things and they said they're not

963
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:49,839
human eyes they they didn't have the

964
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:52,240
pieces that uh you know the pupil the

965
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:55,680
the corning etc that a human would have

966
00:35:59,270 --> 00:35:57,680
yeah and um

967
00:36:01,270 --> 00:35:59,280
and so

968
00:36:01,990 --> 00:36:01,280
this was the the scenario that went on

969
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:02,000
for

970
00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:06,960
and um they were kept alive during all

971
00:36:10,829 --> 00:36:08,560
of this

972
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:10,839
and um

973
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:12,480
then

974
00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:16,079
when they think they're they're mad when

975
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:17,920
they think they're absolutely

976
00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:21,359
insane with with terror and um

977
00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:24,400
and just an adrenaline pumping and uh

978
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:26,480
you know the brain going a mile a minute

979
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:28,160
they're heart pounding

980
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:30,000
um

981
00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:33,200
it seems like they withdraw

982
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:36,720
so it seems like the gremlin type beings

983
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:39,680
withdraw when there's an army of them

984
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:42,000
it seems like the illuminated figures

985
00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:43,680
withdraw

986
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:45,520
and they they're saying you know

987
00:36:49,589 --> 00:36:47,680
praying literally praying

988
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:49,599
you know god help us god protect our

989
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:52,079
children etc

990
00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:54,640
but then they come back again in force

991
00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:56,880
and again this is almost

992
00:37:01,030 --> 00:36:59,200
again a way to play with emotions to

993
00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:01,040
play with their minds

994
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:04,079
and so that it's totally demoralizing

995
00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:09,670
however

996
00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:11,119
and this is

997
00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:13,760
what almost gives the story

998
00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:15,040
um

999
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:18,320
a religious context

1000
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:19,440
what happens

1001
00:37:23,829 --> 00:37:21,040
after this and when they they are

1002
00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:23,839
completely uh out of their minds and

1003
00:37:28,950 --> 00:37:27,599
completely beside themselves with horror

1004
00:37:31,990 --> 00:37:28,960
um

1005
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:32,000
they they see an angelic presence they

1006
00:37:35,589 --> 00:37:33,280
feel it

1007
00:37:38,710 --> 00:37:35,599
and they see it in the clouds

1008
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:38,720
and it's it's um

1009
00:37:43,430 --> 00:37:40,800
it's a sort of angel

1010
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:43,440
they call it their comforter

1011
00:37:47,829 --> 00:37:46,640
because this feminine clearly feminine

1012
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:47,839
presence

1013
00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:51,200
uh like a a giant angel

1014
00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:52,960
descending

1015
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:54,640
comforts them

1016
00:37:58,630 --> 00:37:56,320
you're gonna survive this

1017
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:58,640
your children are okay

1018
00:38:03,349 --> 00:38:01,200
you this will be over soon

1019
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:03,359
and it seems as if

1020
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:10,710
is on a different level a higher level

1021
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:12,480
certainly than the gremlins

1022
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:13,920
and and

1023
00:38:17,990 --> 00:38:15,280
and the scientific beings the

1024
00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:18,000
illuminated figures as well

1025
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:19,599
that this is the sort of a more

1026
00:38:24,310 --> 00:38:22,240
commanding presence

1027
00:38:26,310 --> 00:38:24,320
and at that time they start to withdraw

1028
00:38:27,589 --> 00:38:26,320
really withdraw

1029
00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:27,599
and um

1030
00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:29,760
they feel very sleepy almost like

1031
00:38:37,990 --> 00:38:36,550
they they sleep

1032
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:38,000
however

1033
00:38:43,510 --> 00:38:42,160
just before they actually you know are

1034
00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:43,520
unconscious

1035
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:46,640
they feel the camper being lifted up

1036
00:38:51,109 --> 00:38:49,200
they hear this sound like like the

1037
00:38:52,950 --> 00:38:51,119
mining operation that i this deep

1038
00:38:55,349 --> 00:38:52,960
rumbling in the ground in this pungent

1039
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:55,359
odor that that almost the ground is

1040
00:39:00,310 --> 00:38:58,000
being cut out around them and lifted up

1041
00:39:01,910 --> 00:39:00,320
through this beam into the into the

1042
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:01,920
spaceship

1043
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:05,359
and that's the last thing they remember

1044
00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:07,200
when they wake up

1045
00:39:11,430 --> 00:39:09,359
in the morning they know now obviously

1046
00:39:13,109 --> 00:39:11,440
time has passed because it was night now

1047
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:13,119
it's the sun is out

1048
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:15,200
the campfire is dead they're out of the

1049
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:16,720
camper

1050
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:18,000
and they're sort of sprawled on the

1051
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:19,040
ground

1052
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:20,720
fully clothed

1053
00:39:26,069 --> 00:39:22,400
and

1054
00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:26,079
you know incredibly totally disoriented

1055
00:39:29,910 --> 00:39:27,760
they um

1056
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:29,920
they think the the world has ended

1057
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:31,680
you know they they they can't imagine

1058
00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:34,079
that this just happened to them

1059
00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:36,160
because of the massive scale of all of

1060
00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:36,880
this

1061
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:39,040
and so uh

1062
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:40,400
and so

1063
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:42,720
they put on the radio

1064
00:39:46,710 --> 00:39:44,880
and uh they hear a randy travis song

1065
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:46,720
country western song

1066
00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:48,000
and they're expecting to hear news

1067
00:39:53,910 --> 00:39:49,839
bulletins you know

1068
00:39:56,550 --> 00:39:53,920
oh the world's ending yeah yeah yeah so

1069
00:39:58,790 --> 00:39:56,560
so they they drive in the camper and

1070
00:40:01,589 --> 00:39:58,800
they're like i said disoriented and

1071
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:01,599
there's an elderly couple that's uh

1072
00:40:05,750 --> 00:40:04,000
you know not not too far away

1073
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:05,760
and they stop and ask them you know did

1074
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:09,440
you see but reluctantly you know did you

1075
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:11,680
did anything unusual happen did you see

1076
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:13,599
anything unusual last night

1077
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:15,280
so the woman says no you know we went to

1078
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:16,560
bed early and

1079
00:40:20,550 --> 00:40:19,359
no we don't know of anything unusual

1080
00:40:25,510 --> 00:40:20,560
do you know

1081
00:40:28,150 --> 00:40:25,520
about how far away that couple was from

1082
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:28,160
where they were camping yeah i i

1083
00:40:33,510 --> 00:40:30,560
my my guess i never asked that question

1084
00:40:34,470 --> 00:40:33,520
to them but just the way the context of

1085
00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:34,480
of what

1086
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:36,000
you know of the story and how they told

1087
00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:36,960
it

1088
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:38,720
i would say um

1089
00:40:42,870 --> 00:40:40,880
you know five miles three miles

1090
00:40:45,270 --> 00:40:42,880
all right not not total you know not a

1091
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:45,280
long long distance away

1092
00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:48,240
so they wind up going back to uh

1093
00:40:53,109 --> 00:40:51,760
to their their home in la mirada

1094
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:53,119
um

1095
00:40:58,150 --> 00:40:55,440
you know it doesn't end there

1096
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:58,160
it doesn't end there

1097
00:41:01,109 --> 00:40:59,520
wow

1098
00:41:02,950 --> 00:41:01,119
if we were you know we can you want to

1099
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:02,960
take a break right now and then we can

1100
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:05,040
come back and continue on i can

1101
00:41:09,990 --> 00:41:07,359
certainly do that but i before we do i

1102
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:10,000
do have some questions uh that came up

1103
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:10,640
and

1104
00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:12,480
questions uh i always ask people to put

1105
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:14,079
them in all caps

1106
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:16,160
and uh thank you for doing that and some

1107
00:41:19,829 --> 00:41:17,520
of the people here that did that i just

1108
00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:19,839
want to bring up there was

1109
00:41:25,510 --> 00:41:22,160
this one right here has ron ever

1110
00:41:26,630 --> 00:41:25,520
cooperated in the details

1111
00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:26,640
i mean well

1112
00:41:29,190 --> 00:41:27,359
yeah

1113
00:41:30,309 --> 00:41:29,200
this uh this is sort of the second part

1114
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:30,319
of the story

1115
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:32,000
is what happens after this and what

1116
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:34,400
happens after this is a very thorough

1117
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:37,440
investigation of all the details oh okay

1118
00:41:41,589 --> 00:41:39,520
all right so just going to ask another

1119
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:41,599
there's a couple more questions

1120
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:44,720
uh about the orbs yeah do you know

1121
00:41:48,550 --> 00:41:45,920
anything about the colors or the

1122
00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:48,560
properties of the orbs and are you uh

1123
00:41:53,349 --> 00:41:50,960
assuming that these little dwarf-like

1124
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:53,359
gremlin type things came out of the orbs

1125
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:54,800
yes

1126
00:42:02,069 --> 00:41:58,480
and you could almost think of them as as

1127
00:42:03,990 --> 00:42:02,079
parachuting down in these orbs

1128
00:42:06,470 --> 00:42:04,000
and i wonder what their purpose was and

1129
00:42:09,030 --> 00:42:06,480
all this and any any description of the

1130
00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:09,040
orbs the colors or properties yeah the

1131
00:42:11,190 --> 00:42:09,839
um

1132
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:11,200
they were white

1133
00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:13,839
and um the uh the searcher

1134
00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:15,520
the the thing that was combing the

1135
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:16,960
triangular

1136
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:18,560
device or

1137
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:23,200
um

1138
00:42:28,230 --> 00:42:25,920
i i don't know another word for it

1139
00:42:31,829 --> 00:42:28,240
it was uh it was multicolored so it was

1140
00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:31,839
blue red white and it flashed different

1141
00:42:37,190 --> 00:42:33,920
colors as it was prowling around and

1142
00:42:39,190 --> 00:42:37,200
scanning the desert basin

1143
00:42:42,790 --> 00:42:39,200
wow wow amazing

1144
00:42:46,309 --> 00:42:44,550
so this is kind of a long one here i was

1145
00:42:48,309 --> 00:42:46,319
trying to read it while you were talking

1146
00:42:50,710 --> 00:42:48,319
vast majority of the abduction phenomena

1147
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:50,720
seems to be either scientific

1148
00:42:57,109 --> 00:42:55,280
study and or biological operations

1149
00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:57,119
does ron have

1150
00:42:59,829 --> 00:42:58,720
a comment on that

1151
00:43:02,230 --> 00:42:59,839
and

1152
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:02,240
please elaborate beyond the basics

1153
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:05,359
sure you know uh under hypnosis and i

1154
00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:06,720
guess we'll get to this in the second

1155
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:09,280
half but under hypnosis they have

1156
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:12,400
incredibly detailed explanations even to

1157
00:43:18,390 --> 00:43:14,800
the point where dawn has

1158
00:43:20,470 --> 00:43:18,400
uh when she's hypnotized in retrogress

1159
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:20,480
starts talking in a almost a different

1160
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:24,480
voice as robotic cadence staccato voice

1161
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:26,400
as if it were being channeled and

1162
00:43:29,349 --> 00:43:27,839
explains uh

1163
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:29,359
explained

1164
00:43:33,750 --> 00:43:31,680
what the aliens want

1165
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:33,760
what uh they're here for

1166
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:34,880
and um

1167
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:37,520
where it will lead

1168
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:39,359
she's very interesting

1169
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:41,040
um let me see

1170
00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:43,920
here's uh another one here please ask

1171
00:43:47,109 --> 00:43:45,280
you if

1172
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:47,119
to if there's any further detail on the

1173
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:48,880
communication between these people and

1174
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:51,119
them or these beings in them which i

1175
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:53,200
always think is interesting this

1176
00:43:57,109 --> 00:43:55,040
type of telepathy do you know if the

1177
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:57,119
telepathy was like

1178
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:00,400
english words or visions or it wasn't

1179
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:02,400
visions it was like a voice

1180
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:04,800
like a voice yeah

1181
00:44:08,710 --> 00:44:06,000
amazing

1182
00:44:09,589 --> 00:44:08,720
and uh another one here and this this is

1183
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:09,599
uh

1184
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:11,280
you know the gremlins soda sound

1185
00:44:15,270 --> 00:44:13,119
demonica michael wants to know is this

1186
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:15,280
possible demonic

1187
00:44:19,030 --> 00:44:17,280
this is um actually

1188
00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:19,040
you know again it will get to this i

1189
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:21,440
think in the second half but

1190
00:44:25,190 --> 00:44:22,720
they um

1191
00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:25,200
they were pretty dysfunctional

1192
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:27,760
uh after all of this you know

1193
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:31,280
and um dysfunctional in that it's almost

1194
00:44:34,950 --> 00:44:33,440
like you hear about astronauts the guys

1195
00:44:36,790 --> 00:44:34,960
that went to the moon

1196
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:36,800
so you go to the moon

1197
00:44:39,829 --> 00:44:38,319
what's next

1198
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:39,839
how do you follow that up you say what

1199
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:40,720
are you doing

1200
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:42,079
what am i going to do

1201
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:44,400
that's that's greater than being one of

1202
00:44:47,109 --> 00:44:45,280
the first

1203
00:44:48,790 --> 00:44:47,119
you know men on the moon

1204
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:48,800
and the answer is

1205
00:44:52,550 --> 00:44:51,040
probably nothing and so

1206
00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:52,560
the way uh

1207
00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:54,960
steve in particular felt he had no

1208
00:44:59,589 --> 00:44:57,359
desire to work

1209
00:45:02,870 --> 00:44:59,599
everything became meaningless to him

1210
00:45:04,790 --> 00:45:02,880
everything became trite and and of no

1211
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:04,800
because

1212
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:05,920
he

1213
00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:09,760
believe

1214
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:12,720
that what they saw was another world

1215
00:45:17,270 --> 00:45:15,040
another existence

1216
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:17,280
bigger than our own

1217
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:20,079
integrally involved with our own and he

1218
00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:22,560
knows it and no one else does

1219
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:23,359
yeah

1220
00:45:27,670 --> 00:45:25,440
well you know i totally get

1221
00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:27,680
how that would just make you fall apart

1222
00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:29,359
something like that i totally would i

1223
00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:31,280
would be that person for sure me too i'm

1224
00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:33,599
afraid i think yeah do you get excited

1225
00:45:38,390 --> 00:45:36,000
about them you want to go build them all

1226
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:38,400
you know it all seems so senseless and

1227
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:40,640
so pointless right probably about

1228
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:41,920
eternity

1229
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:43,760
right right well thank you all right

1230
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:45,440
we're gonna go into our break uh thank

1231
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:46,960
you ron we'll be right back in about two

1232
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:49,040
and a half minutes this is a clip from

1233
00:45:53,589 --> 00:45:50,800
the national archives and it's about the

1234
00:45:55,750 --> 00:45:53,599
gulf breeze incident i just thought it

1235
00:46:07,230 --> 00:45:55,760
was kind of interesting and uh these are

1236
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:17,250
[Music]

1237
00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:29,040
this is no ordinary sighting of an

1238
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:31,520
unidentified flying object these

1239
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:33,599
pictures taken over a six-month period

1240
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:35,520
in gulf breeze florida are the most

1241
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:37,680
spectacular evidence of ufos ever

1242
00:46:42,309 --> 00:46:40,160
gathered while some say the photos are

1243
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:42,319
fakes that would not explain the fact

1244
00:46:46,069 --> 00:46:44,160
that more than 20 people have reported

1245
00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:46,079
seeing these objects on the very same

1246
00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:47,040
nights

1247
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:49,440
charles somerby describes what he saw in

1248
00:46:52,069 --> 00:46:50,720
the skies

1249
00:46:53,829 --> 00:46:52,079
no sound

1250
00:46:54,870 --> 00:46:53,839
there was no veering it was a straight

1251
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:54,880
course

1252
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:56,400
and

1253
00:47:02,710 --> 00:47:00,640
so i've never seen anything like that

1254
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:02,720
there were portholes we saw portals of

1255
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,560
light coming out of the portholes the

1256
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:06,480
man who took these pictures insists on

1257
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:09,040
remaining anonymous so we'll call him

1258
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:11,680
jim we had a narrator read a transcript

1259
00:47:15,270 --> 00:47:13,200
of our interview

1260
00:47:18,230 --> 00:47:15,280
jim says his most threatening encounter

1261
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:18,240
with the ufos occurred on this road he

1262
00:47:22,549 --> 00:47:20,400
says an object swooped over his car and

1263
00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:22,559
sent out a beam of light and it came

1264
00:47:26,069 --> 00:47:24,160
through the windshield hit my exposed

1265
00:47:28,710 --> 00:47:26,079
arms and turned my skin to

1266
00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:28,720
like it was asleep but even worse

1267
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:30,160
and then you don't have any feeling at

1268
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:30,960
all

1269
00:47:36,069 --> 00:47:33,599
i proceeded to panic forced off the road

1270
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:36,079
jim fumbled with the camera managing to

1271
00:47:41,190 --> 00:47:38,640
snap this one dramatic picture

1272
00:47:43,190 --> 00:47:41,200
a noted optical physicist calculated the

1273
00:47:44,309 --> 00:47:43,200
object was hovering about three feet off

1274
00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:44,319
the ground

1275
00:47:49,349 --> 00:47:46,480
photography experts say such a picture

1276
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:49,359
would be virtually impossible to fake

1277
00:47:53,109 --> 00:47:51,119
shooting out of the windshield of the

1278
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:53,119
car

1279
00:47:59,670 --> 00:47:57,280
and being able to reproduce this object

1280
00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:59,680
down the road reflecting on the surface

1281
00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:01,440
of the road i feel would be very

1282
00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:03,119
difficult to do

1283
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:05,680
but not everyone buys that argument the

1284
00:48:10,950 --> 00:48:07,839
mayor of gulf breeze is convinced the

1285
00:48:13,430 --> 00:48:10,960
ufo reports are an elaborate hoax that

1286
00:48:16,069 --> 00:48:13,440
are damaging to the image of his city i

1287
00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:16,079
want to go on record as the mayor

1288
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:18,240
and express to all the population

1289
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:29,829
well that's it for that break and uh i

1290
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:31,920
see our guest is that's getting up and

1291
00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:34,880
left uh he should be back in a minute

1292
00:48:39,910 --> 00:48:37,200
and uh so thank you all for for uh

1293
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:39,920
listening to the show interesting story

1294
00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:42,960
um the second part of the show we're

1295
00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:45,680
gonna be continuing on what happened and

1296
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:47,200
then we're gonna be taking calls we can

1297
00:48:51,829 --> 00:48:48,960
take calls probably a little bit earlier

1298
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:51,839
than the typical time which is

1299
00:48:55,829 --> 00:48:53,040
um

1300
00:48:58,230 --> 00:48:55,839
the last half hour of the show and that

1301
00:49:00,150 --> 00:48:58,240
number will be eight five five four

1302
00:49:03,109 --> 00:49:00,160
seven two five four eight three bill

1303
00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:03,119
will be standing by to take a call

1304
00:49:09,190 --> 00:49:06,160
i'm not sure where i guess uh

1305
00:49:10,150 --> 00:49:09,200
our guest went but uh hopefully he will

1306
00:49:12,790 --> 00:49:10,160
be back

1307
00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:12,800
i can see that he's he's gone right now

1308
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:15,040
so a couple of things in june the first

1309
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:16,800
part of june this year last year i was

1310
00:49:19,510 --> 00:49:18,480
at the pine bush

1311
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:19,520
ufo

1312
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:21,200
uh conference that's going to be the

1313
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:23,280
first part of june this year i'm looking

1314
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:25,520
forward to that and i'm going to try to

1315
00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:27,599
do i don't know the timing is off but i

1316
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:29,119
might do some

1317
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:30,640
pre-recording

1318
00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:31,920
with some

1319
00:49:35,910 --> 00:49:33,680
guests that are going to be their

1320
00:49:38,309 --> 00:49:35,920
speakers that are going to be there

1321
00:49:40,710 --> 00:49:38,319
and let's see coming up

1322
00:49:44,069 --> 00:49:40,720
um we have next week we have

1323
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:44,079
chris lambreit he'll be coming up and

1324
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,599
for those of you who

1325
00:49:48,150 --> 00:49:47,200
watch this youtube

1326
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:48,160
channel

1327
00:49:52,390 --> 00:49:51,040
we had an albert wayne he was on he told

1328
00:49:54,630 --> 00:49:52,400
an incredible

1329
00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:54,640
ufo encounter story

1330
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:56,880
and i decided to have him on because he

1331
00:50:00,630 --> 00:49:58,640
had some things happen in his family as

1332
00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:00,640
well he's going to be on for a whole

1333
00:50:04,870 --> 00:50:03,119
hour uh kevin randle the first hour this

1334
00:50:07,270 --> 00:50:04,880
is coming up i think the first march

1335
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:07,280
first or first part of march

1336
00:50:12,790 --> 00:50:09,839
uh kevin randle will be on for the first

1337
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:12,800
hour and albert wayne will be on he's

1338
00:50:17,510 --> 00:50:14,559
going to elaborate more on to that

1339
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,520
incredible ufo encounter that he had and

1340
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:19,440
for those of you who watch my channel

1341
00:50:25,589 --> 00:50:22,240
you'll know this when i say this it was

1342
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:25,599
when everyone that pulled over on i-95

1343
00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:27,599
got off uh they pulled over to watch

1344
00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:30,160
this ufo they ended up getting off in

1345
00:50:34,870 --> 00:50:32,720
the first exit that came up and they all

1346
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:34,880
pulled in to the howard johnsons

1347
00:50:40,630 --> 00:50:37,760
and most of them got ice cream

1348
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:40,640
uh that is quite a story anyway uh so

1349
00:50:45,030 --> 00:50:43,200
bringing back our guest tonight hey ron

1350
00:50:47,430 --> 00:50:45,040
uh thanks for coming back so

1351
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:47,440
my pleasure the yes so

1352
00:50:52,309 --> 00:50:48,240
now

1353
00:50:55,109 --> 00:50:52,319
okay we left off where they are

1354
00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:55,119
they're going home and it sounds like

1355
00:50:58,470 --> 00:50:56,400
something else

1356
00:50:59,430 --> 00:50:58,480
is going to happen

1357
00:51:01,430 --> 00:50:59,440
yeah

1358
00:51:03,670 --> 00:51:01,440
you know um

1359
00:51:05,430 --> 00:51:03,680
i i guess you you hit on it when you

1360
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:05,440
said you know what were they feeling you

1361
00:51:08,549 --> 00:51:07,440
know so what is their mental state after

1362
00:51:10,549 --> 00:51:08,559
this

1363
00:51:12,790 --> 00:51:10,559
yeah and um

1364
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:12,800
you know disoriented again is it doesn't

1365
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:15,040
cover the base you know terrified

1366
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:16,480
confused

1367
00:51:20,710 --> 00:51:18,400
um

1368
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:20,720
exalted in a way like why us

1369
00:51:25,349 --> 00:51:22,800
what what is going on and we scenes are

1370
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:25,359
we special what what is what is going on

1371
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:27,760
here but you have to realize that even

1372
00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:29,760
from the very beginning this is not

1373
00:51:34,230 --> 00:51:32,160
something they wanted to talk about

1374
00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:34,240
and so reluctantly

1375
00:51:39,109 --> 00:51:36,240
when when the their parents the

1376
00:51:40,390 --> 00:51:39,119
grandparents uh steve's parents seize

1377
00:51:41,910 --> 00:51:40,400
them

1378
00:51:43,510 --> 00:51:41,920
and they come back

1379
00:51:45,190 --> 00:51:43,520
she's really concerned about her

1380
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:45,200
children

1381
00:51:47,589 --> 00:51:46,800
and he is uh

1382
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:47,599
you know

1383
00:51:51,990 --> 00:51:49,680
they're like different people

1384
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:52,000
so the parents know that something has

1385
00:51:56,069 --> 00:51:53,520
happened

1386
00:51:58,790 --> 00:51:56,079
and very reluctantly

1387
00:52:00,549 --> 00:51:58,800
they they tell the story

1388
00:52:01,510 --> 00:52:00,559
and this by the way is a couple days

1389
00:52:03,510 --> 00:52:01,520
later

1390
00:52:05,349 --> 00:52:03,520
that they work up the nerve they discuss

1391
00:52:06,630 --> 00:52:05,359
it you know should we should we tell

1392
00:52:09,589 --> 00:52:06,640
them

1393
00:52:12,309 --> 00:52:09,599
and they do and they're i think uh

1394
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:12,319
gravely disappointed

1395
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:13,599
because

1396
00:52:21,589 --> 00:52:19,589
the thing is

1397
00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:21,599
is the kind of thing that you hear

1398
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:23,760
like i'm sure that you think this

1399
00:52:25,990 --> 00:52:25,200
happened

1400
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:26,000
yeah

1401
00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:29,359
i think you're a liar

1402
00:52:34,069 --> 00:52:32,400
right right or it's about the same yeah

1403
00:52:36,069 --> 00:52:34,079
because it's such a passive aggressive

1404
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:36,079
sort of thing i'm sure you think that

1405
00:52:39,030 --> 00:52:37,920
this that this happened

1406
00:52:41,430 --> 00:52:39,040
and so

1407
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:41,440
uh they're very reluctant to tell anyone

1408
00:52:44,150 --> 00:52:43,119
and that's really when i came onto the

1409
00:52:45,589 --> 00:52:44,160
scene

1410
00:52:47,990 --> 00:52:45,599
maybe

1411
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:48,000
six months after this happened to them

1412
00:52:52,870 --> 00:52:50,640
they um and again i don't i don't like

1413
00:52:54,549 --> 00:52:52,880
to get into to too many details about

1414
00:52:58,069 --> 00:52:54,559
their personal life but

1415
00:53:00,549 --> 00:52:58,079
uh they can't eat they can't sleep

1416
00:53:02,710 --> 00:53:00,559
sexually dysfunctional they're just just

1417
00:53:04,790 --> 00:53:02,720
not you know nothing

1418
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:04,800
seems to be the same

1419
00:53:09,670 --> 00:53:07,119
they're terribly paranoid about their

1420
00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:09,680
children uh they're afraid that somehow

1421
00:53:11,750 --> 00:53:10,720
uh

1422
00:53:14,630 --> 00:53:11,760
dawn

1423
00:53:16,870 --> 00:53:14,640
who while she was in the camper one of

1424
00:53:18,309 --> 00:53:16,880
the illuminated beings

1425
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:18,319
flips a finger

1426
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:20,640
and something like the the uh the

1427
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:21,839
burning

1428
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:23,920
part of the cigarette

1429
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:29,359
comes off of his fingertip its fingertip

1430
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:31,440
and into her abdomen

1431
00:53:35,190 --> 00:53:32,480
and so

1432
00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:35,200
she's really concerned that somehow

1433
00:53:39,270 --> 00:53:37,119
something's been taken from her maybe an

1434
00:53:41,190 --> 00:53:39,280
ovary or that somehow this thing went

1435
00:53:43,510 --> 00:53:41,200
right through the window or something

1436
00:53:44,790 --> 00:53:43,520
exactly exactly and that she's been

1437
00:53:46,790 --> 00:53:44,800
impregnated

1438
00:53:48,549 --> 00:53:46,800
she's very concerned about that because

1439
00:53:50,309 --> 00:53:48,559
that's something that that

1440
00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:50,319
she does remember

1441
00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:51,839
um

1442
00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:52,960
so

1443
00:53:57,589 --> 00:53:55,520
when they get home for example uh they

1444
00:53:59,990 --> 00:53:57,599
have terrible nightmares and this of

1445
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:00,000
course it just uh

1446
00:54:05,349 --> 00:54:03,200
causes them to to to have insomnia to be

1447
00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:05,359
paranoid every creak in the house every

1448
00:54:08,950 --> 00:54:08,000
loud noise their their uh

1449
00:54:10,950 --> 00:54:08,960
it

1450
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:10,960
the psychiatrist who saw them there were

1451
00:54:16,549 --> 00:54:11,920
two

1452
00:54:22,470 --> 00:54:18,069
and so

1453
00:54:23,589 --> 00:54:22,480
in the middle of the night

1454
00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:23,599
uh they hear

1455
00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:26,480
their their uh oldest child who was four

1456
00:54:29,589 --> 00:54:28,079
and a half at the time

1457
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:29,599
screaming

1458
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:33,839
they rush into his room and he's

1459
00:54:36,789 --> 00:54:35,520
spinning like a top

1460
00:54:38,390 --> 00:54:36,799
oh geez

1461
00:54:40,390 --> 00:54:38,400
the mother

1462
00:54:42,789 --> 00:54:40,400
scoops him up in her arms

1463
00:54:44,549 --> 00:54:42,799
and embraces him and he's you know he's

1464
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:44,559
hysterical

1465
00:54:47,589 --> 00:54:46,400
and uh

1466
00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:47,599
and says

1467
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:49,359
you know there are monsters they're

1468
00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:51,119
monsters in my room

1469
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:53,680
and so of course the steve says you know

1470
00:54:57,430 --> 00:54:55,440
there is no such thing as monsters there

1471
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:57,440
are no monsters he goes oh there are

1472
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:59,200
there are they're little

1473
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:01,200
and they're they're mean and they have

1474
00:55:03,990 --> 00:55:02,480
red eyes

1475
00:55:05,270 --> 00:55:04,000
oh god

1476
00:55:08,950 --> 00:55:05,280
so

1477
00:55:10,950 --> 00:55:08,960
you hear this all the time called the

1478
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:10,960
hitchhiker effect have you ever heard

1479
00:55:16,230 --> 00:55:12,640
that no term

1480
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:16,240
like something will follow follow you

1481
00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:18,400
and that's what it sounds like happened

1482
00:55:24,069 --> 00:55:19,200
here

1483
00:55:25,990 --> 00:55:24,079
read it if you don't mind can i do that

1484
00:55:27,910 --> 00:55:26,000
yeah as long as it's not real long yeah

1485
00:55:29,030 --> 00:55:27,920
no it's not long at all yeah it's not

1486
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:29,040
well i just want to give you the

1487
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:32,000
description of uh it's not long haul

1488
00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:34,480
the description

1489
00:55:38,069 --> 00:55:36,160
of of what

1490
00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:38,079
they look like

1491
00:55:43,990 --> 00:55:42,160
so it's a june 12th 1990 305 a.m it was

1492
00:55:45,990 --> 00:55:44,000
four weeks later in the dead of early

1493
00:55:48,789 --> 00:55:46,000
morning that the dreams recurred with an

1494
00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:48,799
intensity unlike any of the others

1495
00:55:52,069 --> 00:55:50,079
in his

1496
00:55:53,510 --> 00:55:52,079
steve saw himself back in the camper

1497
00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:53,520
trapped and screaming while the

1498
00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:55,440
illuminated creatures encircled him he

1499
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:58,079
was screaming but there was no sound

1500
00:56:02,470 --> 00:56:00,559
then he saw a flashing image it was of a

1501
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:02,480
long narrow tunnel with lights running

1502
00:56:06,789 --> 00:56:04,559
along the sides but then it was gone

1503
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:06,799
again then he saw a being who was all

1504
00:56:11,349 --> 00:56:09,040
white the color of the tunnel light

1505
00:56:13,589 --> 00:56:11,359
again he saw a flashing image and it was

1506
00:56:15,750 --> 00:56:13,599
of several beings like that they were

1507
00:56:17,670 --> 00:56:15,760
trying to restrain him then the vision

1508
00:56:19,030 --> 00:56:17,680
was gone and only the first figure

1509
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:19,040
remained

1510
00:56:25,109 --> 00:56:22,000
the being is four feet tall he wears a

1511
00:56:27,910 --> 00:56:25,119
white luminous uniform with an upturned

1512
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:27,920
arrow on the chest he has no facial

1513
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:31,440
features no mouth or lips only slit he

1514
00:56:36,150 --> 00:56:33,760
passes directly through the wall he

1515
00:56:38,870 --> 00:56:36,160
stands behind the headboard of the bed

1516
00:56:41,589 --> 00:56:38,880
he stays there passes his three long

1517
00:56:43,349 --> 00:56:41,599
fingers over dawn's face

1518
00:56:45,829 --> 00:56:43,359
over and over

1519
00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:45,839
steve can only see the hand

1520
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:48,480
he opens his eyes and directly above him

1521
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:50,640
is the face of the white being

1522
00:56:57,109 --> 00:56:53,760
you're dreaming he hears the voice say

1523
00:56:59,270 --> 00:56:57,119
then he looks to elite to uh dawn's face

1524
00:57:02,230 --> 00:56:59,280
and sees the burn marks its fingers have

1525
00:57:05,270 --> 00:57:02,240
left hey wait a minute tom says aloud

1526
00:57:07,910 --> 00:57:05,280
this is no dream he turned to see elyse

1527
00:57:10,789 --> 00:57:07,920
and gaffe he was awake he knew he was

1528
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:10,799
awake and elite at least dawn had burn

1529
00:57:16,789 --> 00:57:14,160
marks all over her face dawn's eyes open

1530
00:57:18,950 --> 00:57:16,799
the expression on his face scared her

1531
00:57:21,030 --> 00:57:18,960
what what is it go to the mirror he

1532
00:57:23,510 --> 00:57:21,040
urged her go to the mirror

1533
00:57:25,829 --> 00:57:23,520
dawn walked to the wall mirror above the

1534
00:57:27,109 --> 00:57:25,839
chiffon ear my god what is this she

1535
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:27,119
screamed

1536
00:57:33,190 --> 00:57:29,839
steve steve what have they done they

1537
00:57:36,069 --> 00:57:35,109
so this is the kind of thing

1538
00:57:38,470 --> 00:57:36,079
this is the

1539
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:38,480
malevolent is is a good word like she

1540
00:57:41,589 --> 00:57:40,559
used yes yeah

1541
00:57:44,390 --> 00:57:41,599
yeah

1542
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:44,400
so it it so somebody had asked is this

1543
00:57:48,870 --> 00:57:45,760
um

1544
00:57:51,109 --> 00:57:48,880
diabolical but you know

1545
00:57:52,789 --> 00:57:51,119
it's so it's it's it's one of these

1546
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:52,799
things where

1547
00:57:56,789 --> 00:57:54,720
what do you want to call it

1548
00:57:59,750 --> 00:57:56,799
i mean on the one hand you get these

1549
00:58:05,030 --> 00:58:02,069
dwarf-like beings that are yeah

1550
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:05,040
malevolent demonic let's say you get the

1551
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:07,520
others that are are sort of scientists

1552
00:58:11,430 --> 00:58:09,599
and seem to be experimenting but then

1553
00:58:13,829 --> 00:58:11,440
above it all you get this

1554
00:58:16,390 --> 00:58:13,839
clearly angelic presence

1555
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:16,400
that that comes you know comes down

1556
00:58:20,870 --> 00:58:17,520
upon them

1557
00:58:24,069 --> 00:58:20,880
and and it has this incredibly calming

1558
00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:24,079
effect and that's why they call her

1559
00:58:29,349 --> 00:58:27,040
clearly a feminine uh present

1560
00:58:30,870 --> 00:58:29,359
call her their comforter

1561
00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:30,880
so

1562
00:58:34,150 --> 00:58:31,920
uh

1563
00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:34,160
you could easily see if you wanted to

1564
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:36,240
look at this from sort of a biblical

1565
00:58:39,589 --> 00:58:37,440
sense

1566
00:58:43,430 --> 00:58:39,599
you could see it taking on a religious

1567
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:43,440
context you know a higher level of good

1568
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:46,319
being a lower level of uh

1569
00:58:50,870 --> 00:58:48,880
of diabolical being

1570
00:58:53,510 --> 00:58:50,880
on the other hand on the other hand

1571
00:58:56,390 --> 00:58:53,520
maybe this is just the way it is maybe

1572
00:58:58,150 --> 00:58:56,400
maybe there is a kind of hierarchy of of

1573
00:59:00,390 --> 00:58:58,160
beings maybe

1574
00:59:02,549 --> 00:59:00,400
maybe there's more than one

1575
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:02,559
visitor maybe there's different kinds of

1576
00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:05,599
aliens and maybe they they do

1577
00:59:11,670 --> 00:59:07,920
combat each other in some way or control

1578
00:59:14,230 --> 00:59:11,680
each other in a kind of hierarchy

1579
00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:14,240
the story is the story

1580
00:59:19,750 --> 00:59:16,720
and and i think you have to interpret it

1581
00:59:20,870 --> 00:59:19,760
on your own yeah i don't know while you

1582
00:59:23,990 --> 00:59:20,880
were

1583
00:59:25,109 --> 00:59:24,000
them

1584
00:59:28,710 --> 00:59:25,119
was

1585
00:59:30,710 --> 00:59:28,720
talk about

1586
00:59:33,030 --> 00:59:30,720
and and how did you did you feel

1587
00:59:34,150 --> 00:59:33,040
comfortable with everything they told

1588
00:59:35,109 --> 00:59:34,160
you

1589
00:59:36,870 --> 00:59:35,119
yeah

1590
00:59:38,549 --> 00:59:36,880
so this is uh this is

1591
00:59:41,430 --> 00:59:38,559
what happened

1592
00:59:43,910 --> 00:59:41,440
i uh i decided to invest

1593
00:59:44,829 --> 00:59:43,920
a lot of my own personal money

1594
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:44,839
in this

1595
00:59:49,750 --> 00:59:48,160
research so i um

1596
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:49,760
i

1597
00:59:53,349 --> 00:59:52,480
had them uh go to a take a polygraph

1598
00:59:54,870 --> 00:59:53,359
test

1599
00:59:56,870 --> 00:59:54,880
with a

1600
00:59:58,470 --> 00:59:56,880
person that did for police and the fbi

1601
00:59:59,750 --> 00:59:58,480
did polygraphs

1602
01:00:02,309 --> 00:59:59,760
um

1603
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:02,319
dawn was pregnant at the time

1604
01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:04,000
so she didn't take it because pregnant

1605
01:00:08,710 --> 01:00:06,160
women because of the electrical uh

1606
01:00:10,390 --> 01:00:08,720
impulses that are not uh not supposed to

1607
01:00:12,309 --> 01:00:10,400
take a polygraph this but

1608
01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:12,319
but uh steve did

1609
01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:13,520
and um

1610
01:00:17,430 --> 01:00:15,359
and he passed it

1611
01:00:18,549 --> 01:00:17,440
so once i had sort of the green light on

1612
01:00:21,430 --> 01:00:18,559
that

1613
01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:21,440
i took them to uh a friend i roomed in

1614
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:24,240
college at georgetown with um a fellow

1615
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:26,400
that became a surgeon

1616
01:00:31,190 --> 01:00:28,559
so i hadn't talked to him in years

1617
01:00:33,030 --> 01:00:31,200
but i called him and i said uh you know

1618
01:00:35,510 --> 01:00:33,040
this is the story

1619
01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:35,520
and i need the best uh

1620
01:00:43,829 --> 01:00:41,670
that you know of or that you could find

1621
01:00:47,190 --> 01:00:43,839
out about and i needed an introduction

1622
01:00:49,030 --> 01:00:47,200
to them and that was uh dr bernie vatone

1623
01:00:52,309 --> 01:00:49,040
dr bernard raton

1624
01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:52,319
um and he uh actually is a small quote

1625
01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:53,440
from him

1626
01:00:55,990 --> 01:00:54,880
but he is uh

1627
01:00:57,910 --> 01:00:56,000
the uh

1628
01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:57,920
the director of the national center for

1629
01:01:04,870 --> 01:01:01,440
psychiatric disorders in washington dc

1630
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:04,880
and so he examined them uh tested them

1631
01:01:08,950 --> 01:01:07,680
for days they took tests wow he

1632
01:01:09,750 --> 01:01:08,960
interviewed them

1633
01:01:12,630 --> 01:01:09,760
and

1634
01:01:13,589 --> 01:01:12,640
he said this is what he quoted

1635
01:01:17,030 --> 01:01:13,599
highly

1636
01:01:20,309 --> 01:01:17,040
uh unusual traumatizing events outside

1637
01:01:23,349 --> 01:01:20,319
the realm of normal human experiences

1638
01:01:25,270 --> 01:01:23,359
he compared their condition to that of

1639
01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:25,280
pows

1640
01:01:29,349 --> 01:01:26,960
and um

1641
01:01:31,270 --> 01:01:29,359
and by the way concluded they were not

1642
01:01:33,430 --> 01:01:31,280
prone to fantasy

1643
01:01:35,109 --> 01:01:33,440
they were not neurotic they certainly

1644
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:35,119
were not psychotic

1645
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:37,200
um that these were

1646
01:01:40,549 --> 01:01:38,480
normal

1647
01:01:41,349 --> 01:01:40,559
a little bit above intelligent

1648
01:01:42,549 --> 01:01:41,359
uh

1649
01:01:45,270 --> 01:01:42,559
individuals

1650
01:01:47,430 --> 01:01:45,280
who were stable and um

1651
01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:47,440
incredible

1652
01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:51,040
so after that we eliminated a number of

1653
01:01:55,349 --> 01:01:53,280
things one we eliminated

1654
01:01:56,870 --> 01:01:55,359
some psychological condition

1655
01:01:58,789 --> 01:01:56,880
or some

1656
01:02:02,870 --> 01:01:58,799
condition that would make somebody prone

1657
01:02:05,270 --> 01:02:02,880
to to lying or prone to fantasy and and

1658
01:02:08,950 --> 01:02:05,280
they were not those people

1659
01:02:11,910 --> 01:02:08,960
then i took them to uh to asheville

1660
01:02:13,510 --> 01:02:11,920
asheville um north carolina to see dr

1661
01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:13,520
william anixter

1662
01:02:18,630 --> 01:02:16,960
and dr anixter uh worked with the fbi

1663
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:18,640
on um

1664
01:02:23,190 --> 01:02:20,720
as i said i was i was a former

1665
01:02:25,029 --> 01:02:23,200
uh law enforcement person so i i sort of

1666
01:02:27,270 --> 01:02:25,039
plunged into all that and

1667
01:02:31,029 --> 01:02:27,280
and uh dug out dr

1668
01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:31,039
anixer who agreed to retrogress them

1669
01:02:34,630 --> 01:02:33,440
so we flew them out to north carolina to

1670
01:02:36,710 --> 01:02:34,640
asheville

1671
01:02:39,270 --> 01:02:36,720
and this is what to the mountain

1672
01:02:40,870 --> 01:02:39,280
psychiatric center and this is what dr

1673
01:02:42,950 --> 01:02:40,880
anixer had to say

1674
01:02:45,910 --> 01:02:42,960
this is the most compelling case of its

1675
01:02:48,870 --> 01:02:45,920
kind i have ever encountered

1676
01:02:51,190 --> 01:02:48,880
and during the the uh retrogression to

1677
01:02:57,109 --> 01:02:51,200
answer your question

1678
01:03:02,470 --> 01:02:59,589
they were screaming in terror

1679
01:03:04,549 --> 01:03:02,480
and they relived these experiences

1680
01:03:05,990 --> 01:03:04,559
uh they

1681
01:03:08,309 --> 01:03:06,000
they were

1682
01:03:10,470 --> 01:03:08,319
clearly horrified

1683
01:03:12,630 --> 01:03:10,480
and uh actually in the middle of a lot

1684
01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:12,640
of this i dawn would just say i want to

1685
01:03:16,630 --> 01:03:14,960
go home i want to go home

1686
01:03:17,589 --> 01:03:16,640
you know like a little kid like a little

1687
01:03:19,829 --> 01:03:17,599
kid

1688
01:03:20,789 --> 01:03:19,839
but through that retrogression came out

1689
01:03:23,109 --> 01:03:20,799
um

1690
01:03:24,789 --> 01:03:23,119
some incredible truths about what

1691
01:03:27,109 --> 01:03:24,799
happened to them

1692
01:03:30,789 --> 01:03:27,119
they were taken on the craft

1693
01:03:32,309 --> 01:03:30,799
uh they were experimented on uh i you

1694
01:03:33,109 --> 01:03:32,319
know in the book there's there's a lot

1695
01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:33,119
of

1696
01:03:39,029 --> 01:03:38,000
and um

1697
01:03:41,270 --> 01:03:39,039
and uh

1698
01:03:42,789 --> 01:03:41,280
there were some questions asked

1699
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:42,799
that that went beyond so they were they

1700
01:03:46,230 --> 01:03:44,640
were experimented on the the kind of

1701
01:03:47,910 --> 01:03:46,240
thing you would you would uh hear about

1702
01:03:50,309 --> 01:03:47,920
abduction cases

1703
01:03:51,510 --> 01:03:50,319
meaning um they were probed

1704
01:03:53,829 --> 01:03:51,520
they were very interested in their

1705
01:03:55,430 --> 01:03:53,839
reproductive systems they were very

1706
01:03:57,190 --> 01:03:55,440
interested as i told you about their

1707
01:04:00,069 --> 01:03:57,200
mental capacity

1708
01:04:02,549 --> 01:04:00,079
now was she pregnant at the time no

1709
01:04:03,510 --> 01:04:02,559
she was not pregnant at that time no

1710
01:04:05,750 --> 01:04:03,520
okay

1711
01:04:08,630 --> 01:04:05,760
so uh

1712
01:04:10,870 --> 01:04:08,640
so one of the questions that um that was

1713
01:04:12,710 --> 01:04:10,880
asked was you know why are they here

1714
01:04:14,549 --> 01:04:12,720
what do they want

1715
01:04:15,670 --> 01:04:14,559
and um

1716
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:15,680
she said

1717
01:04:19,670 --> 01:04:17,280
and again this wasn't a voice not her

1718
01:04:21,910 --> 01:04:19,680
own this sort of staccato

1719
01:04:23,510 --> 01:04:21,920
voice is this is this uh see up here

1720
01:04:26,549 --> 01:04:23,520
this question someone said there was a

1721
01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:26,559
robotic voice relaying information so

1722
01:04:29,589 --> 01:04:28,079
someone obviously has read your book

1723
01:04:32,789 --> 01:04:29,599
here

1724
01:04:36,150 --> 01:04:32,799
it seems like yeah yeah but um the

1725
01:04:39,270 --> 01:04:36,160
answers were just incredible and um

1726
01:04:41,589 --> 01:04:39,280
may i may i quote from the uh

1727
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:41,599
go right from the from the transcript

1728
01:04:49,109 --> 01:04:43,200
yeah

1729
01:04:50,950 --> 01:04:49,119
so dawn do you have any idea what these

1730
01:04:53,750 --> 01:04:50,960
beings want or why they're here this is

1731
01:04:55,990 --> 01:04:53,760
the uh the doctor so it was macabre

1732
01:04:58,630 --> 01:04:56,000
watching her spring up in her chair

1733
01:05:00,630 --> 01:04:58,640
suddenly animated and alert her voice

1734
01:05:02,069 --> 01:05:00,640
rather than soft and emotional took on a

1735
01:05:03,829 --> 01:05:02,079
new cadence

1736
01:05:05,270 --> 01:05:03,839
which was clipped and direct quite

1737
01:05:06,829 --> 01:05:05,280
unlike her quote

1738
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:06,839
they want to make contact with the

1739
01:05:11,829 --> 01:05:09,359
population steve and i are specimens

1740
01:05:13,750 --> 01:05:11,839
imperfect like the human race when we're

1741
01:05:17,510 --> 01:05:13,760
ready to communicate with them face to

1742
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:17,520
face then possibly the world will be too

1743
01:05:21,349 --> 01:05:19,760
her actions such as edging forward in

1744
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:21,359
her chair at the moment seemed

1745
01:05:25,510 --> 01:05:23,200
mechanical as did her voice as she

1746
01:05:27,349 --> 01:05:25,520
continued quote they have to study our

1747
01:05:29,990 --> 01:05:27,359
reactions so they know how to approach

1748
01:05:32,390 --> 01:05:30,000
us they don't have emotions like ours so

1749
01:05:40,309 --> 01:05:32,400
they need us to reap to teach them they

1750
01:05:45,109 --> 01:05:43,670
which all makes sense yeah absolutely

1751
01:05:46,230 --> 01:05:45,119
yeah yeah

1752
01:05:48,789 --> 01:05:46,240
uh

1753
01:05:51,029 --> 01:05:48,799
if these beings are in contact with you

1754
01:05:52,390 --> 01:05:51,039
tell me what you know about them this is

1755
01:05:54,789 --> 01:05:52,400
where

1756
01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:54,799
it gets really um

1757
01:05:58,230 --> 01:05:56,480
i guess subjective in terms of

1758
01:05:59,589 --> 01:05:58,240
interpretation but this is what she

1759
01:06:02,390 --> 01:05:59,599
answered

1760
01:06:05,510 --> 01:06:02,400
god created our world in his image but

1761
01:06:08,150 --> 01:06:05,520
not theirs or any of the others are

1762
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:08,160
there many different kinds of beings yes

1763
01:06:13,029 --> 01:06:10,720
different ones different hybrids when do

1764
01:06:15,670 --> 01:06:13,039
you think this communication will happen

1765
01:06:16,630 --> 01:06:15,680
between the aliens and humans i don't

1766
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:16,640
know

1767
01:06:23,109 --> 01:06:20,799
in my lifetime how long will you live

1768
01:06:27,270 --> 01:06:23,119
in a normal man's lifetime

1769
01:06:28,069 --> 01:06:27,280
in our children's she said at last

1770
01:06:29,829 --> 01:06:28,079
wow

1771
01:06:32,309 --> 01:06:29,839
stunning don't you think i mean i just

1772
01:06:33,109 --> 01:06:32,319
find the whole thing stunning so when

1773
01:06:37,349 --> 01:06:33,119
they

1774
01:06:39,750 --> 01:06:37,359
that that was videoed

1775
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:39,760
yes did they video and were you able to

1776
01:06:43,270 --> 01:06:40,799
watch that

1777
01:06:45,670 --> 01:06:43,280
oh yeah sure yeah

1778
01:06:47,589 --> 01:06:45,680
yeah yeah um

1779
01:06:49,029 --> 01:06:47,599
let's just can i i'll read you one last

1780
01:06:51,349 --> 01:06:49,039
thing that i think your listeners would

1781
01:06:53,349 --> 01:06:51,359
be really interested in because

1782
01:06:56,470 --> 01:06:53,359
i don't think that i know of anything

1783
01:06:57,589 --> 01:06:56,480
where the answers are so clear

1784
01:06:59,910 --> 01:06:57,599
you know

1785
01:07:02,069 --> 01:06:59,920
you talked about the universe and the

1786
01:07:05,510 --> 01:07:02,079
and matter earlier you said

1787
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:05,520
our universe ends where there's begins

1788
01:07:10,870 --> 01:07:07,200
this is what she said

1789
01:07:12,470 --> 01:07:10,880
our universe ends when its matter stops

1790
01:07:16,390 --> 01:07:12,480
mattering to us

1791
01:07:18,470 --> 01:07:16,400
and starts mattering to them

1792
01:07:19,430 --> 01:07:18,480
what does that mean she answers i don't

1793
01:07:22,069 --> 01:07:19,440
know

1794
01:07:25,270 --> 01:07:22,079
then she says the missions these aliens

1795
01:07:28,470 --> 01:07:25,280
are on are they friendly or unfriendly

1796
01:07:30,390 --> 01:07:28,480
they're neutral they could care less

1797
01:07:31,990 --> 01:07:30,400
what does the one supreme which she had

1798
01:07:32,950 --> 01:07:32,000
mentioned before

1799
01:07:34,630 --> 01:07:32,960
want

1800
01:07:36,789 --> 01:07:34,640
for all the galaxies to live

1801
01:07:38,870 --> 01:07:36,799
harmoniously together

1802
01:07:40,069 --> 01:07:38,880
do we have a separate god from the one

1803
01:07:40,950 --> 01:07:40,079
supreme

1804
01:07:44,390 --> 01:07:40,960
no

1805
01:07:46,870 --> 01:07:44,400
entity

1806
01:07:49,990 --> 01:07:46,880
is it a being like the others read the

1807
01:07:53,190 --> 01:07:50,950
wow

1808
01:07:55,829 --> 01:07:53,200
i know it to me it's like just really a

1809
01:07:57,990 --> 01:07:55,839
conundrum it's a it's something that

1810
01:07:59,510 --> 01:07:58,000
it's like a gem that you look at from

1811
01:08:01,430 --> 01:07:59,520
different angles

1812
01:08:02,789 --> 01:08:01,440
and and it glistens in different ways

1813
01:08:05,510 --> 01:08:02,799
you know

1814
01:08:07,990 --> 01:08:05,520
right right so are elsie and tom still

1815
01:08:09,589 --> 01:08:08,000
with us that's that's uh someone asking

1816
01:08:11,990 --> 01:08:09,599
right here but i did have some questions

1817
01:08:13,990 --> 01:08:12,000
about them yeah i should mention uh

1818
01:08:16,870 --> 01:08:14,000
originally they didn't want their names

1819
01:08:17,829 --> 01:08:16,880
used and so we uh called it uh elise and

1820
01:08:19,829 --> 01:08:17,839
tom

1821
01:08:21,749 --> 01:08:19,839
but uh their real names and they did you

1822
01:08:24,149 --> 01:08:21,759
know they did come out with this story

1823
01:08:25,669 --> 01:08:24,159
themselves after

1824
01:08:27,829 --> 01:08:25,679
after some time

1825
01:08:28,709 --> 01:08:27,839
and their their name is stephen dawn

1826
01:08:31,110 --> 01:08:28,719
hess

1827
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:31,120
i was wondering why you mentioned don i

1828
01:08:34,149 --> 01:08:32,239
couldn't understand why you're

1829
01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:34,159
mentioning don instead of elise now i

1830
01:08:39,430 --> 01:08:37,199
understand so uh

1831
01:08:41,829 --> 01:08:39,440
so that was my question are they

1832
01:08:43,269 --> 01:08:41,839
actually talking about this have they

1833
01:08:44,470 --> 01:08:43,279
talked about this

1834
01:08:47,510 --> 01:08:44,480
on

1835
01:08:49,430 --> 01:08:47,520
coast and places like that and talk

1836
01:08:51,269 --> 01:08:49,440
about these incredible stories have they

1837
01:08:53,749 --> 01:08:51,279
done anything like that

1838
01:08:55,189 --> 01:08:53,759
they did um they did an interview with

1839
01:08:57,749 --> 01:08:55,199
jimmy church

1840
01:08:59,749 --> 01:08:57,759
uh where uh they were on and interviewed

1841
01:09:01,030 --> 01:08:59,759
along with me but it was just one and

1842
01:09:04,070 --> 01:09:01,040
that was it

1843
01:09:04,950 --> 01:09:04,080
and and are they

1844
01:09:08,309 --> 01:09:04,960
really

1845
01:09:09,990 --> 01:09:08,319
very uncomfortable in talking about this

1846
01:09:11,269 --> 01:09:10,000
yes or they they

1847
01:09:13,269 --> 01:09:11,279
yeah i mean do they have do they

1848
01:09:16,229 --> 01:09:13,279
basically relive it

1849
01:09:18,390 --> 01:09:16,239
i think i think that um

1850
01:09:20,709 --> 01:09:18,400
you know it's like somebody i'm just

1851
01:09:23,510 --> 01:09:20,719
reading a book about world war one

1852
01:09:25,189 --> 01:09:23,520
now all quiet on the western front

1853
01:09:28,229 --> 01:09:25,199
and you know when these fellows came

1854
01:09:30,149 --> 01:09:28,239
back from these terrible experiences

1855
01:09:31,749 --> 01:09:30,159
they didn't want to talk about it yeah

1856
01:09:33,510 --> 01:09:31,759
and i would say it's very similar i

1857
01:09:35,910 --> 01:09:33,520
don't think this is something that that

1858
01:09:37,269 --> 01:09:35,920
gives them any joy in reliving or

1859
01:09:40,309 --> 01:09:37,279
discussing

1860
01:09:42,390 --> 01:09:40,319
yeah yeah no i i get that it's and a lot

1861
01:09:44,789 --> 01:09:42,400
of people i've talked to over the years

1862
01:09:46,630 --> 01:09:44,799
have to walk away from

1863
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:46,640
what their experience is

1864
01:09:51,189 --> 01:09:49,120
and revisit it when they feel like like

1865
01:09:52,870 --> 01:09:51,199
it you know for instance you know travis

1866
01:09:55,189 --> 01:09:52,880
walton has talked about

1867
01:09:57,910 --> 01:09:55,199
being away from that whole situation for

1868
01:09:58,709 --> 01:09:57,920
many years because it it just horrified

1869
01:10:00,630 --> 01:09:58,719
him

1870
01:10:02,950 --> 01:10:00,640
and uh you know he didn't

1871
01:10:05,110 --> 01:10:02,960
and there was a lot of negativity

1872
01:10:06,790 --> 01:10:05,120
out there too about his

1873
01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:06,800
his story and he just said i don't need

1874
01:10:09,990 --> 01:10:08,640
this you know i mean

1875
01:10:11,669 --> 01:10:10,000
you don't need when you have something

1876
01:10:13,590 --> 01:10:11,679
like this happen you don't really need

1877
01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:13,600
to convince anyone

1878
01:10:16,229 --> 01:10:14,880
i i think you're i think you're

1879
01:10:18,950 --> 01:10:16,239
absolutely right i think what's

1880
01:10:20,709 --> 01:10:18,960
frustrating is that to them

1881
01:10:22,950 --> 01:10:20,719
is that that

1882
01:10:25,189 --> 01:10:22,960
how do you really explain

1883
01:10:27,110 --> 01:10:25,199
something like this how do you really

1884
01:10:28,950 --> 01:10:27,120
if somebody's skeptical

1885
01:10:30,630 --> 01:10:28,960
i mean it's not their job to convince

1886
01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:30,640
them

1887
01:10:35,430 --> 01:10:33,199
it just isn't they have a it's almost

1888
01:10:37,350 --> 01:10:35,440
like being i i i

1889
01:10:39,030 --> 01:10:37,360
hate to make this religious again i

1890
01:10:41,350 --> 01:10:39,040
don't really want to but it's almost

1891
01:10:44,390 --> 01:10:41,360
like these prophets in the bible

1892
01:10:45,910 --> 01:10:44,400
i mean if you're a believer and and a

1893
01:10:47,350 --> 01:10:45,920
prophet talks to you i guess you say

1894
01:10:49,270 --> 01:10:47,360
this is a prophet

1895
01:10:51,750 --> 01:10:49,280
if you're not a believer and somebody

1896
01:10:53,590 --> 01:10:51,760
talks to you like this you say this is a

1897
01:10:54,470 --> 01:10:53,600
crazy person

1898
01:10:55,669 --> 01:10:54,480
yeah

1899
01:10:58,229 --> 01:10:55,679
and as you say

1900
01:11:01,030 --> 01:10:58,239
who needs that i mean it was bad enough

1901
01:11:02,870 --> 01:11:01,040
that it happened they felt uh in a way

1902
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:02,880
privileged and in a way

1903
01:11:07,750 --> 01:11:04,880
uh marked

1904
01:11:09,910 --> 01:11:07,760
right so so it's it's a double-edged

1905
01:11:11,990 --> 01:11:09,920
sword and not necessary they wound up

1906
01:11:13,110 --> 01:11:12,000
turning to religion they became devout

1907
01:11:14,950 --> 01:11:13,120
mormon

1908
01:11:18,790 --> 01:11:14,960
and actually

1909
01:11:21,350 --> 01:11:18,800
actually relocated uh to utah but the

1910
01:11:23,669 --> 01:11:21,360
bishop of the of the church

1911
01:11:27,430 --> 01:11:23,679
told them they didn't have a an alien

1912
01:11:31,669 --> 01:11:27,440
encounter they had a uh they they had an

1913
01:11:33,510 --> 01:11:32,470
wow

1914
01:11:35,189 --> 01:11:33,520
oh

1915
01:11:38,630 --> 01:11:35,199
yeah

1916
01:11:40,790 --> 01:11:38,640
so so they went they went to mormon wow

1917
01:11:43,270 --> 01:11:40,800
um and i imagine

1918
01:11:45,990 --> 01:11:43,280
you know this has been years now that

1919
01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:46,000
this has happened yes and

1920
01:11:49,189 --> 01:11:47,760
had they had any other you know you

1921
01:11:51,510 --> 01:11:49,199
talked about their

1922
01:11:54,390 --> 01:11:51,520
three-year-old or however old the child

1923
01:11:55,990 --> 01:11:54,400
was that was spinning yeah any other

1924
01:11:57,669 --> 01:11:56,000
what other anything other things

1925
01:11:59,189 --> 01:11:57,679
happened along the way

1926
01:12:01,189 --> 01:11:59,199
i i think there were those are the two

1927
01:12:02,470 --> 01:12:01,199
that stick out in my mind but nightmares

1928
01:12:05,030 --> 01:12:02,480
and just

1929
01:12:07,270 --> 01:12:05,040
this terrible feeling of being watched

1930
01:12:08,709 --> 01:12:07,280
actually um steve talks about it and

1931
01:12:09,590 --> 01:12:08,719
there's a quote

1932
01:12:12,070 --> 01:12:09,600
and

1933
01:12:13,669 --> 01:12:12,080
it basically says you know

1934
01:12:16,950 --> 01:12:13,679
how would you feel

1935
01:12:18,229 --> 01:12:16,960
if you had a wife and children

1936
01:12:21,270 --> 01:12:18,239
in a house

1937
01:12:22,950 --> 01:12:21,280
in you know in a nice suburban

1938
01:12:24,790 --> 01:12:22,960
town

1939
01:12:26,870 --> 01:12:24,800
and you knew you couldn't protect them

1940
01:12:27,669 --> 01:12:26,880
that you couldn't do anything

1941
01:12:29,990 --> 01:12:27,679
yeah

1942
01:12:32,950 --> 01:12:30,000
to protect them or to keep them out of

1943
01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:32,960
harm's way or to keep these uh these

1944
01:12:37,110 --> 01:12:35,280
beings from meddling in their lives or

1945
01:12:38,149 --> 01:12:37,120
kidnapping them or doing anything they

1946
01:12:41,110 --> 01:12:38,159
wanted

1947
01:12:43,590 --> 01:12:41,120
it it's a terrifying horrible

1948
01:12:48,310 --> 01:12:46,149
and why do you think this

1949
01:12:49,669 --> 01:12:48,320
case isn't you know there's been a lot

1950
01:12:51,750 --> 01:12:49,679
of people in the chat

1951
01:12:53,669 --> 01:12:51,760
that have said something along the lines

1952
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:53,679
where wow how come i've never heard

1953
01:12:55,910 --> 01:12:54,960
about this one

1954
01:12:58,070 --> 01:12:55,920
and

1955
01:13:00,630 --> 01:12:58,080
why do you suppose i mean it i know

1956
01:13:04,709 --> 01:13:00,640
there was only two people here involved

1957
01:13:07,110 --> 01:13:04,719
so that maybe that may be the issue

1958
01:13:09,510 --> 01:13:07,120
because there's not a lot of cooperation

1959
01:13:12,550 --> 01:13:09,520
and witnesses and things like that but

1960
01:13:14,790 --> 01:13:12,560
um any other ideas why this isn't

1961
01:13:17,189 --> 01:13:14,800
more well known than it is i mean it

1962
01:13:19,270 --> 01:13:17,199
seems like a an amazing event

1963
01:13:20,709 --> 01:13:19,280
yeah yeah no it's it's that's an easy

1964
01:13:23,590 --> 01:13:20,719
one to answer

1965
01:13:25,430 --> 01:13:23,600
um let's say in the case of uh travis

1966
01:13:27,430 --> 01:13:25,440
walton or some others

1967
01:13:30,630 --> 01:13:27,440
i mean he's willing to discuss it he's

1968
01:13:32,790 --> 01:13:30,640
been on many shows and and uh

1969
01:13:35,110 --> 01:13:32,800
they don't want to discuss it they were

1970
01:13:37,430 --> 01:13:35,120
on a show just to get it behind them so

1971
01:13:38,630 --> 01:13:37,440
okay we did this they felt like it was

1972
01:13:41,189 --> 01:13:38,640
important

1973
01:13:42,390 --> 01:13:41,199
to the world to tell this story and so

1974
01:13:45,350 --> 01:13:42,400
they told it

1975
01:13:47,910 --> 01:13:45,360
um uh they've been discouraged from

1976
01:13:50,870 --> 01:13:47,920
from involvement as i mentioned they

1977
01:13:53,830 --> 01:13:50,880
became part of the church the bishop

1978
01:13:54,550 --> 01:13:53,840
said you know it happened it's over move

1979
01:13:58,630 --> 01:13:54,560
on

1980
01:14:00,870 --> 01:13:58,640
this was not about fame or celebrity

1981
01:14:02,870 --> 01:14:00,880
this was an incident that happened they

1982
01:14:05,350 --> 01:14:02,880
discussed it a book was written

1983
01:14:06,950 --> 01:14:05,360
and uh and so they left it alone the

1984
01:14:08,790 --> 01:14:06,960
other thing is probably from my

1985
01:14:09,830 --> 01:14:08,800
standpoint

1986
01:14:11,189 --> 01:14:09,840
um

1987
01:14:14,709 --> 01:14:11,199
you know i

1988
01:14:15,590 --> 01:14:14,719
conferences and and those kinds of

1989
01:14:18,709 --> 01:14:15,600
things

1990
01:14:20,550 --> 01:14:18,719
and um as a rule i i don't you know i

1991
01:14:22,550 --> 01:14:20,560
don't do too many interviews about it

1992
01:14:24,630 --> 01:14:22,560
and i i haven't been to any conferences

1993
01:14:26,470 --> 01:14:24,640
even though i've been invited and that

1994
01:14:29,590 --> 01:14:26,480
kind of is because and i've actually

1995
01:14:31,430 --> 01:14:29,600
been asked to write you know a a sequel

1996
01:14:33,669 --> 01:14:31,440
another book uh

1997
01:14:34,550 --> 01:14:33,679
taking this further or a similar kind of

1998
01:14:37,750 --> 01:14:34,560
book

1999
01:14:39,110 --> 01:14:37,760
and and i haven't i haven't because um

2000
01:14:40,950 --> 01:14:39,120
you know

2001
01:14:43,270 --> 01:14:40,960
for me

2002
01:14:45,030 --> 01:14:43,280
i feel pretty much the same way

2003
01:14:45,910 --> 01:14:45,040
i wrote the best book i know how to

2004
01:14:48,310 --> 01:14:45,920
write

2005
01:14:49,350 --> 01:14:48,320
yeah i told the story as best i can tell

2006
01:14:54,229 --> 01:14:49,360
it

2007
01:14:56,630 --> 01:14:54,239
i i don't i don't feel like uh i want to

2008
01:14:58,709 --> 01:14:56,640
you know shout it from the rooftops i

2009
01:15:01,510 --> 01:14:58,719
i've written other books as i mentioned

2010
01:15:03,270 --> 01:15:01,520
i i'm i have a new book that uh it'll be

2011
01:15:04,709 --> 01:15:03,280
out in september

2012
01:15:07,189 --> 01:15:04,719
and uh

2013
01:15:09,030 --> 01:15:07,199
you know i have other stories to tell

2014
01:15:11,590 --> 01:15:09,040
but if you're asking me this is the most

2015
01:15:13,590 --> 01:15:11,600
significant book i've ever written

2016
01:15:15,030 --> 01:15:13,600
right um so

2017
01:15:16,790 --> 01:15:15,040
this is just you know i mean there's

2018
01:15:18,630 --> 01:15:16,800
always uh people

2019
01:15:21,590 --> 01:15:18,640
that are throwing critical

2020
01:15:23,830 --> 01:15:21,600
um things up here and what

2021
01:15:26,310 --> 01:15:23,840
he mean you are asking us to accept

2022
01:15:28,630 --> 01:15:26,320
uncritically what these people say this

2023
01:15:31,270 --> 01:15:28,640
is not the right way to go are we being

2024
01:15:32,709 --> 01:15:31,280
sold a bridge to nowhere type of thing

2025
01:15:35,270 --> 01:15:32,719
and i just thought maybe i'd throw that

2026
01:15:37,030 --> 01:15:35,280
at you as a cop i can address this well

2027
01:15:39,830 --> 01:15:37,040
i'm sure it'd be my pleasure

2028
01:15:41,990 --> 01:15:39,840
um you know at the end of the day i took

2029
01:15:42,709 --> 01:15:42,000
them to the best uh

2030
01:15:44,870 --> 01:15:42,719
the

2031
01:15:46,790 --> 01:15:44,880
center for psychiatry

2032
01:15:47,990 --> 01:15:46,800
in washington dc one of the most

2033
01:15:50,070 --> 01:15:48,000
reputable

2034
01:15:52,790 --> 01:15:50,080
institutions of its kind

2035
01:15:55,350 --> 01:15:52,800
uh an incredibly reputable doctor dr

2036
01:15:56,310 --> 01:15:55,360
bernard vertone examined them they took

2037
01:15:58,229 --> 01:15:56,320
tests

2038
01:16:01,270 --> 01:15:58,239
so that's critical

2039
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:01,280
uh i took them to uh dr anixter

2040
01:16:05,189 --> 01:16:03,920
uh in uh asheville north carolina flew

2041
01:16:06,790 --> 01:16:05,199
them in

2042
01:16:08,870 --> 01:16:06,800
for days

2043
01:16:11,830 --> 01:16:08,880
and uh they were examined and they were

2044
01:16:12,950 --> 01:16:11,840
retrogressed and it was tape videotaped

2045
01:16:16,310 --> 01:16:12,960
um

2046
01:16:18,390 --> 01:16:16,320
i had them take a uh a polygraph test

2047
01:16:20,709 --> 01:16:18,400
i mean really within the scope of what

2048
01:16:21,750 --> 01:16:20,719
i'm capable of i'm not an institution

2049
01:16:24,709 --> 01:16:21,760
i'm not

2050
01:16:25,990 --> 01:16:24,719
you know the cia or the fbi or

2051
01:16:27,910 --> 01:16:26,000
the nsa

2052
01:16:30,310 --> 01:16:27,920
you know

2053
01:16:32,310 --> 01:16:30,320
i i examine this as closely and as

2054
01:16:34,070 --> 01:16:32,320
thoroughly as i know how

2055
01:16:35,669 --> 01:16:34,080
and yet at the end of the day whatever

2056
01:16:37,990 --> 01:16:35,679
account you have

2057
01:16:41,430 --> 01:16:38,000
uh whether it's from ronald reagan

2058
01:16:44,550 --> 01:16:41,440
who uh who has had ufo experiences from

2059
01:16:45,910 --> 01:16:44,560
jimmy carter who has had ufo experiences

2060
01:16:49,430 --> 01:16:45,920
and reported them

2061
01:16:50,790 --> 01:16:49,440
uh to uh the pilot on the nimitz

2062
01:16:51,910 --> 01:16:50,800
or the uh

2063
01:16:55,030 --> 01:16:51,920
the uh

2064
01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:55,040
uss uh roosevelt i mean

2065
01:16:59,830 --> 01:16:57,840
at the end people tell their story they

2066
01:17:01,189 --> 01:16:59,840
show what evidence they have

2067
01:17:03,270 --> 01:17:01,199
and you believe them or you don't

2068
01:17:04,229 --> 01:17:03,280
believe them i'm not selling anything

2069
01:17:06,070 --> 01:17:04,239
you know

2070
01:17:08,950 --> 01:17:06,080
i'm telling you a story

2071
01:17:10,390 --> 01:17:08,960
and how did they feel about your book

2072
01:17:12,310 --> 01:17:10,400
um

2073
01:17:14,630 --> 01:17:12,320
i think they thought it was uh what's

2074
01:17:16,870 --> 01:17:14,640
the word competently written

2075
01:17:19,669 --> 01:17:16,880
i would say i i don't think you know

2076
01:17:22,229 --> 01:17:19,679
they this came from tape so i taped them

2077
01:17:24,390 --> 01:17:22,239
for hours and hours and hours

2078
01:17:26,950 --> 01:17:24,400
and uh so this most of the book comes

2079
01:17:28,709 --> 01:17:26,960
directly from the tapes that uh that i

2080
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:28,719
recorded

2081
01:17:32,870 --> 01:17:30,480
when's the last time that you spoke with

2082
01:17:35,910 --> 01:17:32,880
i know you said they moved to utah

2083
01:17:37,350 --> 01:17:35,920
um i i haven't spoken to them

2084
01:17:39,910 --> 01:17:37,360
uh and again probably for all the

2085
01:17:42,070 --> 01:17:39,920
reasons we just discussed um i think

2086
01:17:43,350 --> 01:17:42,080
maybe two or three years ago two and a

2087
01:17:48,630 --> 01:17:43,360
half years

2088
01:17:51,750 --> 01:17:48,640
yeah yeah wow well that is one heck of a

2089
01:17:52,550 --> 01:17:51,760
story and uh and scary i mean you have

2090
01:17:55,990 --> 01:17:52,560
to

2091
01:17:58,950 --> 01:17:56,000
martin yeah

2092
01:18:00,870 --> 01:17:58,960
when i first heard if if you were going

2093
01:18:03,830 --> 01:18:00,880
to lie

2094
01:18:05,669 --> 01:18:03,840
and if you were going to tell a story

2095
01:18:07,430 --> 01:18:05,679
first of all these people are not that

2096
01:18:10,310 --> 01:18:07,440
way so we know that i think i've

2097
01:18:12,390 --> 01:18:10,320
established as best as best i can

2098
01:18:14,070 --> 01:18:12,400
but if you were gonna lie if you were

2099
01:18:17,110 --> 01:18:14,080
gonna tell a story

2100
01:18:19,189 --> 01:18:17,120
would you talk about a ufo the size of

2101
01:18:21,510 --> 01:18:19,199
you know a battleship

2102
01:18:23,830 --> 01:18:21,520
would you talk about these different

2103
01:18:25,669 --> 01:18:23,840
kinds of beings

2104
01:18:27,110 --> 01:18:25,679
to me what makes it credible is the

2105
01:18:29,189 --> 01:18:27,120
detail

2106
01:18:33,590 --> 01:18:29,199
and the unabashed

2107
01:18:39,350 --> 01:18:36,630
it would be easier to make this credible

2108
01:18:41,590 --> 01:18:39,360
if if you took some of it out

2109
01:18:44,709 --> 01:18:41,600
it would be easier to make some of it

2110
01:18:46,630 --> 01:18:44,719
more but this is the unvarnished story

2111
01:18:47,910 --> 01:18:46,640
and i find the fact that it's so

2112
01:18:49,510 --> 01:18:47,920
incredible

2113
01:18:52,070 --> 01:18:49,520
is what makes it so

2114
01:18:56,470 --> 01:18:52,080
likely to be true

2115
01:18:58,550 --> 01:18:56,480
i i kind of i get that um i find myself

2116
01:19:00,310 --> 01:18:58,560
when i just mentioned earlier right

2117
01:19:02,470 --> 01:19:00,320
after the break that i have albert wayne

2118
01:19:05,110 --> 01:19:02,480
coming up and he talks about everyone

2119
01:19:07,030 --> 01:19:05,120
pulled over on i-95 and the l

2120
01:19:09,030 --> 01:19:07,040
uh when they leave after this ufo

2121
01:19:10,950 --> 01:19:09,040
encounter they pull over to the howard

2122
01:19:13,430 --> 01:19:10,960
johnsons and get ice cream exactly you

2123
01:19:15,350 --> 01:19:13,440
know i mean those weird things like that

2124
01:19:19,510 --> 01:19:15,360
i mean exactly

2125
01:19:21,590 --> 01:19:19,520
is just so so bizarre you know

2126
01:19:24,630 --> 01:19:21,600
it feels more credible another thing

2127
01:19:26,310 --> 01:19:24,640
that i found really sort of amazing and

2128
01:19:28,790 --> 01:19:26,320
i didn't know the two things

2129
01:19:29,990 --> 01:19:28,800
to to answer the question

2130
01:19:33,189 --> 01:19:30,000
two things

2131
01:19:35,030 --> 01:19:33,199
one is uh fife simmington

2132
01:19:36,950 --> 01:19:35,040
i'm sure you've seen him interviewed and

2133
01:19:39,030 --> 01:19:36,960
heard what he has to say

2134
01:19:41,750 --> 01:19:39,040
he talked about

2135
01:19:43,830 --> 01:19:41,760
the ufo the size of a football field now

2136
01:19:47,270 --> 01:19:43,840
again another credible guy i mean a

2137
01:19:48,470 --> 01:19:47,280
pilot etc a fighter pilot in vietnam a

2138
01:19:50,390 --> 01:19:48,480
governor

2139
01:19:51,590 --> 01:19:50,400
and he talked about this slowly moving

2140
01:19:53,590 --> 01:19:51,600
overhead

2141
01:19:55,750 --> 01:19:53,600
and again it would probably be a lot

2142
01:19:57,990 --> 01:19:55,760
more credible incredible it would be

2143
01:20:01,270 --> 01:19:58,000
untrue but more credible if he said well

2144
01:20:04,470 --> 01:20:01,280
it was about 50 feet in diameter and you

2145
01:20:05,430 --> 01:20:04,480
know it whished by at some speed

2146
01:20:07,350 --> 01:20:05,440
but no

2147
01:20:09,110 --> 01:20:07,360
it's the size of a football field which

2148
01:20:12,149 --> 01:20:09,120
is exactly the way

2149
01:20:14,390 --> 01:20:12,159
they described the ufo that capped the

2150
01:20:17,990 --> 01:20:14,400
valley about above them

2151
01:20:20,070 --> 01:20:18,000
the other is that there are petroglyphs

2152
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:20,080
uh cave drawings

2153
01:20:23,189 --> 01:20:21,360
that um

2154
01:20:25,510 --> 01:20:23,199
that are in the um

2155
01:20:28,629 --> 01:20:25,520
the uh mountains there in the caves of

2156
01:20:30,790 --> 01:20:28,639
the mojave it was the paiute indians

2157
01:20:32,629 --> 01:20:30,800
and many of the drawings

2158
01:20:34,709 --> 01:20:32,639
resembled to a t

2159
01:20:35,990 --> 01:20:34,719
the way the illuminated figures are

2160
01:20:38,709 --> 01:20:36,000
described

2161
01:20:41,110 --> 01:20:38,719
and there's a ground drawing that can be

2162
01:20:42,550 --> 01:20:41,120
seen overhead in the mojave called the

2163
01:20:44,310 --> 01:20:42,560
mojave twins

2164
01:20:45,110 --> 01:20:44,320
if you want to chill

2165
01:20:46,790 --> 01:20:45,120
just

2166
01:20:49,030 --> 01:20:46,800
look that up i guess on the internet or

2167
01:20:52,149 --> 01:20:49,040
somewhere mojave twins and what you'll

2168
01:20:55,510 --> 01:20:52,159
see is exactly what they described as

2169
01:20:57,430 --> 01:20:55,520
the illuminated uh figures looking like

2170
01:20:59,270 --> 01:20:57,440
so i find this when you put it all

2171
01:21:01,430 --> 01:20:59,280
together

2172
01:21:04,470 --> 01:21:01,440
uh the uniform described with the arrow

2173
01:21:05,270 --> 01:21:04,480
the truncated arrow pointing up

2174
01:21:07,430 --> 01:21:05,280
um

2175
01:21:09,350 --> 01:21:07,440
i talked to somebody else and in an

2176
01:21:11,669 --> 01:21:09,360
account that they had heard there was

2177
01:21:14,310 --> 01:21:11,679
that same kind of symbol

2178
01:21:16,149 --> 01:21:14,320
so these are little details that as a

2179
01:21:17,910 --> 01:21:16,159
you know as a somebody that it's a

2180
01:21:20,709 --> 01:21:17,920
critical thinker

2181
01:21:21,910 --> 01:21:20,719
it starts it starts to

2182
01:21:24,390 --> 01:21:21,920
coalesce

2183
01:21:26,470 --> 01:21:24,400
into something that's that's just

2184
01:21:27,510 --> 01:21:26,480
i i think it's true that's that's where

2185
01:21:29,110 --> 01:21:27,520
i come out

2186
01:21:30,870 --> 01:21:29,120
and the doctors thought it was true as

2187
01:21:36,149 --> 01:21:30,880
well

2188
01:21:37,189 --> 01:21:36,159
quite amazing that you did go through

2189
01:21:39,030 --> 01:21:37,199
all of that

2190
01:21:41,750 --> 01:21:39,040
you know to to make sure this was a

2191
01:21:45,430 --> 01:21:41,760
credible story before you invested

2192
01:21:47,669 --> 01:21:45,440
all the time you know into this thing so

2193
01:21:49,910 --> 01:21:47,679
and i'm trying to put an image up having

2194
01:21:51,350 --> 01:21:49,920
trouble uh copying an image i thought it

2195
01:21:53,669 --> 01:21:51,360
would be easy to do

2196
01:21:55,590 --> 01:21:53,679
uh the mojave twins uh let me give it

2197
01:21:57,110 --> 01:21:55,600
another shot here i'll try one more time

2198
01:21:58,870 --> 01:21:57,120
here

2199
01:22:00,390 --> 01:21:58,880
because i can pull that right up if it

2200
01:22:02,550 --> 01:22:00,400
comes out here i can pull that right up

2201
01:22:05,910 --> 01:22:02,560
on the screen i think i just did it

2202
01:22:09,430 --> 01:22:05,920
let's see yep i got it it's coming so uh

2203
01:22:12,629 --> 01:22:09,440
yeah i mean that that whole

2204
01:22:13,990 --> 01:22:12,639
story is is just amazing to me here it

2205
01:22:15,750 --> 01:22:14,000
is here

2206
01:22:17,830 --> 01:22:15,760
which is uh that's something you see you

2207
01:22:20,229 --> 01:22:17,840
see from the sky and i'll put that in

2208
01:22:21,990 --> 01:22:20,239
the show notes for the audio listener

2209
01:22:24,709 --> 01:22:22,000
um interesting

2210
01:22:26,550 --> 01:22:24,719
um because yeah i mean people could say

2211
01:22:27,990 --> 01:22:26,560
a lot about that but i mean even how

2212
01:22:29,430 --> 01:22:28,000
would you make something like that when

2213
01:22:31,110 --> 01:22:29,440
you're on the ground that's pretty

2214
01:22:31,990 --> 01:22:31,120
amazing because it's so big

2215
01:22:34,870 --> 01:22:32,000
yeah

2216
01:22:36,629 --> 01:22:34,880
exactly

2217
01:22:39,270 --> 01:22:36,639
well that is a

2218
01:22:41,669 --> 01:22:39,280
a horrific story i now know why that

2219
01:22:44,870 --> 01:22:41,679
person in chat said early on that he

2220
01:22:47,750 --> 01:22:44,880
wasn't going to sleep tonight

2221
01:22:49,910 --> 01:22:47,760
um you know and the funny thing is is

2222
01:22:51,510 --> 01:22:49,920
with that story is all the different

2223
01:22:53,990 --> 01:22:51,520
beings all

2224
01:22:56,070 --> 01:22:54,000
you said like maybe a hierarchy yeah you

2225
01:22:57,990 --> 01:22:56,080
know you have these gremlin type things

2226
01:23:00,229 --> 01:22:58,000
i mean they can't get any scarier than

2227
01:23:01,830 --> 01:23:00,239
that with red eyes small little things

2228
01:23:04,070 --> 01:23:01,840
running around and what was their

2229
01:23:08,550 --> 01:23:04,080
purpose was their purpose to get them

2230
01:23:10,229 --> 01:23:08,560
back into the to the uh camper or what

2231
01:23:11,590 --> 01:23:10,239
honestly i honestly i don't know because

2232
01:23:13,669 --> 01:23:11,600
i think they went back in the camper

2233
01:23:14,470 --> 01:23:13,679
almost uh in a daze

2234
01:23:15,990 --> 01:23:14,480
uh

2235
01:23:18,310 --> 01:23:16,000
you know just like they were ordered to

2236
01:23:19,270 --> 01:23:18,320
do it and sort of zombies that were just

2237
01:23:22,310 --> 01:23:19,280
uh

2238
01:23:24,790 --> 01:23:22,320
yeah um mentally controlled in some way

2239
01:23:28,229 --> 01:23:24,800
i i said their faces pardon me go ahead

2240
01:23:30,550 --> 01:23:28,239
yeah i i think probably i mean

2241
01:23:32,950 --> 01:23:30,560
it seemed like they took great joy in

2242
01:23:34,629 --> 01:23:32,960
scaring the hell out of them yeah

2243
01:23:36,229 --> 01:23:34,639
graphics you said their faces look like

2244
01:23:38,790 --> 01:23:36,239
leather so they obviously saw them

2245
01:23:40,550 --> 01:23:38,800
pretty close yes yeah

2246
01:23:42,470 --> 01:23:40,560
and so was there some type of i mean

2247
01:23:44,310 --> 01:23:42,480
these were on the car climbing on the

2248
01:23:45,189 --> 01:23:44,320
climbing on yeah yeah

2249
01:23:47,110 --> 01:23:45,199
how much

2250
01:23:48,950 --> 01:23:47,120
was this i'm picturing i'm trying to

2251
01:23:50,790 --> 01:23:48,960
picture the time of day

2252
01:23:52,709 --> 01:23:50,800
how they could see these things

2253
01:23:54,550 --> 01:23:52,719
this was they were stargazing so

2254
01:23:56,390 --> 01:23:54,560
obviously it was nighttime yeah yeah

2255
01:23:58,550 --> 01:23:56,400
sure and so how did they see these

2256
01:24:00,790 --> 01:23:58,560
things lit up i mean did they having how

2257
01:24:02,629 --> 01:24:00,800
could they see them yeah over they had

2258
01:24:04,950 --> 01:24:02,639
red

2259
01:24:07,830 --> 01:24:04,960
the vehicle above them had this these

2260
01:24:10,870 --> 01:24:07,840
lights and actually had uh smaller craft

2261
01:24:12,629 --> 01:24:10,880
sort of attached to it the huge ufo

2262
01:24:15,669 --> 01:24:12,639
and so there was a beam of light that

2263
01:24:17,189 --> 01:24:15,679
was uh incredibly illuminated figures

2264
01:24:18,310 --> 01:24:17,199
but these things were all over their

2265
01:24:19,910 --> 01:24:18,320
vehicle

2266
01:24:22,790 --> 01:24:19,920
i mean they were literally in the trees

2267
01:24:24,310 --> 01:24:22,800
and all over yeah like swarming

2268
01:24:26,229 --> 01:24:24,320
the thing you said about sound is

2269
01:24:28,310 --> 01:24:26,239
something i hear all the time you said

2270
01:24:30,629 --> 01:24:28,320
it sounded like the valley was capped

2271
01:24:33,110 --> 01:24:30,639
yeah and a number i mean it goes back to

2272
01:24:35,430 --> 01:24:33,120
the berkshires incident and many other

2273
01:24:37,590 --> 01:24:35,440
incidents where people say that all the

2274
01:24:40,149 --> 01:24:37,600
sound is gone almost like they're under

2275
01:24:41,510 --> 01:24:40,159
water that's kind of the term

2276
01:24:43,750 --> 01:24:41,520
um yes and

2277
01:24:45,590 --> 01:24:43,760
so there's no sound at all all the

2278
01:24:46,870 --> 01:24:45,600
insects everything you hear in the in

2279
01:24:49,189 --> 01:24:46,880
the desert night

2280
01:24:51,590 --> 01:24:49,199
is all of a sudden quieted

2281
01:24:53,590 --> 01:24:51,600
for for no apparent reason other than

2282
01:24:55,669 --> 01:24:53,600
what's going on and and the other thing

2283
01:24:57,270 --> 01:24:55,679
you know i'm sure that um

2284
01:25:00,229 --> 01:24:57,280
people familiar with this topic as your

2285
01:25:01,910 --> 01:25:00,239
listeners and viewers i'm sure are

2286
01:25:04,950 --> 01:25:01,920
um

2287
01:25:08,149 --> 01:25:04,960
the question becomes

2288
01:25:10,229 --> 01:25:08,159
would they sought out

2289
01:25:12,070 --> 01:25:10,239
because stephen had this experience when

2290
01:25:14,470 --> 01:25:12,080
he was 12 and this was some sort of

2291
01:25:16,149 --> 01:25:14,480
follow-up some sort of

2292
01:25:19,110 --> 01:25:16,159
culmination

2293
01:25:21,510 --> 01:25:19,120
or was it just happenstance

2294
01:25:23,510 --> 01:25:21,520
that they stumbled onto this there was a

2295
01:25:24,390 --> 01:25:23,520
mining operation that that maybe you

2296
01:25:26,790 --> 01:25:24,400
know

2297
01:25:29,510 --> 01:25:26,800
aliamax was getting

2298
01:25:32,070 --> 01:25:29,520
various uh

2299
01:25:34,790 --> 01:25:32,080
rare earths they were mining from that

2300
01:25:36,870 --> 01:25:34,800
uh that area from the mojave

2301
01:25:38,790 --> 01:25:36,880
some of it used for laser weaponry and

2302
01:25:41,590 --> 01:25:38,800
satellite technology

2303
01:25:44,709 --> 01:25:41,600
and um maybe you know they were mining

2304
01:25:47,110 --> 01:25:44,719
this uh for themselves and and

2305
01:25:48,629 --> 01:25:47,120
steve and dawn just stumbled onto them

2306
01:25:51,430 --> 01:25:48,639
so the question is is this sort of a

2307
01:25:52,870 --> 01:25:51,440
predestined thing and i'm you know

2308
01:25:55,430 --> 01:25:52,880
meant to be

2309
01:25:57,990 --> 01:25:55,440
or or was it happenstance and now i

2310
01:26:00,790 --> 01:25:58,000
think that's a very interesting question

2311
01:26:03,270 --> 01:26:00,800
because it it bears light then

2312
01:26:05,990 --> 01:26:03,280
on the phenomenon itself

2313
01:26:09,270 --> 01:26:06,000
are people tracked for their are they

2314
01:26:11,830 --> 01:26:09,280
identified at an early stage trackless

2315
01:26:13,590 --> 01:26:11,840
you would track maybe a a shark or an

2316
01:26:15,590 --> 01:26:13,600
animal that's endangered or that you

2317
01:26:18,470 --> 01:26:15,600
want to study closely

2318
01:26:20,149 --> 01:26:18,480
and i don't know the answer to that but

2319
01:26:21,350 --> 01:26:20,159
maybe the answer is both you know maybe

2320
01:26:27,030 --> 01:26:21,360
that

2321
01:26:29,270 --> 01:26:27,040
was destined to have this happen

2322
01:26:30,310 --> 01:26:29,280
and uh that there was this operation

2323
01:26:33,189 --> 01:26:30,320
going on

2324
01:26:34,790 --> 01:26:33,199
simultaneously it's hard to say but i

2325
01:26:37,189 --> 01:26:34,800
think it's an interesting question and

2326
01:26:39,669 --> 01:26:37,199
the answer is an important one

2327
01:26:41,510 --> 01:26:39,679
well you know if he hadn't

2328
01:26:42,470 --> 01:26:41,520
wounded that mule deer and wanted to go

2329
01:26:44,149 --> 01:26:42,480
back

2330
01:26:45,750 --> 01:26:44,159
um if she got her way and they went

2331
01:26:47,750 --> 01:26:45,760
dancing you know there's all these

2332
01:26:50,390 --> 01:26:47,760
little circumstances well look at

2333
01:26:51,590 --> 01:26:50,400
midnight mid-hills campsite

2334
01:26:52,390 --> 01:26:51,600
he said it was

2335
01:26:54,149 --> 01:26:52,400
very

2336
01:26:57,189 --> 01:26:54,159
highly unusual that

2337
01:26:58,790 --> 01:26:57,199
that campsite would be filled up so

2338
01:27:00,790 --> 01:26:58,800
you know

2339
01:27:01,590 --> 01:27:00,800
that's what makes it a fascinating story

2340
01:27:05,430 --> 01:27:01,600
yeah

2341
01:27:07,270 --> 01:27:05,440
you know you you we could go we can look

2342
01:27:07,990 --> 01:27:07,280
at life all of us can look at life like

2343
01:27:10,070 --> 01:27:08,000
this

2344
01:27:13,189 --> 01:27:10,080
if i hadn't gone out to a hot tub in

2345
01:27:14,870 --> 01:27:13,199
carmel valley at exactly the time i did

2346
01:27:16,390 --> 01:27:14,880
and something didn't catch my eye

2347
01:27:19,270 --> 01:27:16,400
wouldn't be sitting here right now

2348
01:27:21,510 --> 01:27:19,280
talking to you exactly so

2349
01:27:23,590 --> 01:27:21,520
it's all those little things and then a

2350
01:27:25,990 --> 01:27:23,600
great connection in my life all happened

2351
01:27:28,470 --> 01:27:26,000
because of that you know all these these

2352
01:27:30,870 --> 01:27:28,480
different things so um

2353
01:27:33,189 --> 01:27:30,880
anyway i i did open the lines that

2354
01:27:35,110 --> 01:27:33,199
number is eight five five four seven two

2355
01:27:36,870 --> 01:27:35,120
five four eight three uh bill is

2356
01:27:37,910 --> 01:27:36,880
standing by to take your call remember

2357
01:27:41,110 --> 01:27:37,920
to mutual

2358
01:27:43,030 --> 01:27:41,120
your sound when you uh when you go go in

2359
01:27:44,870 --> 01:27:43,040
with bill um so we don't have any

2360
01:27:47,590 --> 01:27:44,880
feedback um during the show but the

2361
01:27:49,990 --> 01:27:47,600
lines are open uh we welcome your call

2362
01:27:51,990 --> 01:27:50,000
but let's let's switch gears uh and

2363
01:27:53,830 --> 01:27:52,000
people are welcome to call about that

2364
01:27:56,310 --> 01:27:53,840
but uh we have a half hour left or a

2365
01:27:59,510 --> 01:27:56,320
little bit under that and let's go into

2366
01:28:01,830 --> 01:27:59,520
what your next project is

2367
01:28:02,709 --> 01:28:01,840
well talk about a coincidence since

2368
01:28:04,229 --> 01:28:02,719
since

2369
01:28:05,910 --> 01:28:04,239
we're on that

2370
01:28:09,669 --> 01:28:05,920
line of reasoning

2371
01:28:11,189 --> 01:28:09,679
so i i was a student at uh at georgetown

2372
01:28:14,390 --> 01:28:11,199
university when the filming of the

2373
01:28:16,070 --> 01:28:14,400
exodus exorcist was happening

2374
01:28:17,350 --> 01:28:16,080
so i guess there was a sophomore at the

2375
01:28:19,189 --> 01:28:17,360
time

2376
01:28:20,790 --> 01:28:19,199
and uh all these cameras are there and

2377
01:28:23,430 --> 01:28:20,800
of course the exorcist at the time was

2378
01:28:26,149 --> 01:28:23,440
like a mega hit book i think it was on

2379
01:28:30,070 --> 01:28:26,159
the best seller list for 56 weeks or

2380
01:28:32,149 --> 01:28:30,080
some crazy sold 14 million copies or so

2381
01:28:34,709 --> 01:28:32,159
and uh so they were filming

2382
01:28:36,950 --> 01:28:34,719
so vlady william peter blatty

2383
01:28:38,790 --> 01:28:36,960
had gone to georgetown and probably said

2384
01:28:42,709 --> 01:28:38,800
it there because of his

2385
01:28:45,270 --> 01:28:42,719
experiences uh as a student and uh and

2386
01:28:47,990 --> 01:28:45,280
said it even though the real case

2387
01:28:49,910 --> 01:28:48,000
happened in uh in maryland

2388
01:28:52,070 --> 01:28:49,920
so anyway one way or the other

2389
01:28:54,709 --> 01:28:52,080
i was a writer i published a bunch of

2390
01:28:56,870 --> 01:28:54,719
short stories and articles and

2391
01:28:58,950 --> 01:28:56,880
and my first novel

2392
01:29:00,229 --> 01:28:58,960
so i said you know this is my

2393
01:29:02,310 --> 01:29:00,239
opportunity

2394
01:29:04,070 --> 01:29:02,320
william peter blatty

2395
01:29:06,070 --> 01:29:04,080
successful author it's not every day i

2396
01:29:08,070 --> 01:29:06,080
get to meet you know published authors

2397
01:29:09,669 --> 01:29:08,080
and i'm gonna i'm gonna

2398
01:29:12,229 --> 01:29:09,679
get this book to him

2399
01:29:15,030 --> 01:29:12,239
and uh come hell her high order well it

2400
01:29:17,189 --> 01:29:15,040
wasn't so easy because uh

2401
01:29:19,430 --> 01:29:17,199
because a lot of people had been sending

2402
01:29:21,030 --> 01:29:19,440
him manuscripts from all over the place

2403
01:29:24,070 --> 01:29:21,040
i found out that he was at the key

2404
01:29:26,070 --> 01:29:24,080
marriott um the key bridge marriott so

2405
01:29:28,310 --> 01:29:26,080
he had an office there at the time along

2406
01:29:30,629 --> 01:29:28,320
with william friedkin the director

2407
01:29:32,709 --> 01:29:30,639
so i went there and there's a secretary

2408
01:29:34,149 --> 01:29:32,719
and they weren't there but the secretary

2409
01:29:35,990 --> 01:29:34,159
was they were filming i guess and

2410
01:29:38,149 --> 01:29:36,000
working on the project

2411
01:29:40,390 --> 01:29:38,159
and so i pretty much plead with this uh

2412
01:29:42,470 --> 01:29:40,400
secretary you know please give him

2413
01:29:45,189 --> 01:29:42,480
my first novel you know

2414
01:29:48,229 --> 01:29:45,199
it was loaded with typos

2415
01:29:50,390 --> 01:29:48,239
you know you can imagine but anyway

2416
01:29:52,390 --> 01:29:50,400
so she said look look behind me and

2417
01:29:53,910 --> 01:29:52,400
there's this big stack of manuscripts

2418
01:29:55,510 --> 01:29:53,920
because they're coming from all over the

2419
01:29:56,709 --> 01:29:55,520
world they're coming from germany

2420
01:29:58,229 --> 01:29:56,719
they're coming from england they're

2421
01:29:59,270 --> 01:29:58,239
coming from israel they're coming from

2422
01:30:02,149 --> 01:29:59,280
everywhere

2423
01:30:04,310 --> 01:30:02,159
uh he you know he's not going to have

2424
01:30:05,430 --> 01:30:04,320
time to read read this and he's

2425
01:30:07,189 --> 01:30:05,440
certainly not going to have time to read

2426
01:30:09,510 --> 01:30:07,199
yours which is you know number

2427
01:30:11,270 --> 01:30:09,520
700 in the list here

2428
01:30:13,590 --> 01:30:11,280
so i said look

2429
01:30:15,110 --> 01:30:13,600
you know i'm just like he was he was a

2430
01:30:16,629 --> 01:30:15,120
student here i'm a student here he

2431
01:30:17,590 --> 01:30:16,639
wanted to be a writer i want to be a

2432
01:30:19,990 --> 01:30:17,600
writer

2433
01:30:21,590 --> 01:30:20,000
i said uh i grew up in newark he grew up

2434
01:30:24,709 --> 01:30:21,600
in in brooklyn

2435
01:30:29,189 --> 01:30:26,950
not a lot of money he came in scholar on

2436
01:30:31,189 --> 01:30:29,199
scholarship i said our backgrounds are

2437
01:30:33,430 --> 01:30:31,199
very similar we're very similar

2438
01:30:36,310 --> 01:30:33,440
just give it to them and tell them

2439
01:30:37,830 --> 01:30:36,320
that i'm just like he was when he was uh

2440
01:30:39,750 --> 01:30:37,840
18 years old

2441
01:30:42,629 --> 01:30:39,760
and he said all right i'll tell you what

2442
01:30:43,910 --> 01:30:42,639
i'll give it to him but

2443
01:30:45,669 --> 01:30:43,920
that's it

2444
01:30:46,709 --> 01:30:45,679
and give it to him and tell him what you

2445
01:30:49,110 --> 01:30:46,719
told me

2446
01:30:51,189 --> 01:30:49,120
and that's that's all i'm asking

2447
01:30:53,270 --> 01:30:51,199
so i went back to new jersey where i

2448
01:30:55,590 --> 01:30:53,280
lived with my parents

2449
01:30:56,709 --> 01:30:55,600
and uh i got a call over thanksgiving

2450
01:30:58,950 --> 01:30:56,719
weekend

2451
01:31:00,470 --> 01:30:58,960
and it's william peter blatty and he

2452
01:31:01,750 --> 01:31:00,480
says i like your book i want to meet

2453
01:31:04,470 --> 01:31:01,760
with you

2454
01:31:06,550 --> 01:31:04,480
so we met and he was just uh he's passed

2455
01:31:08,229 --> 01:31:06,560
away maybe four years ago just a really

2456
01:31:10,149 --> 01:31:08,239
wonderful guy i mean i just have nothing

2457
01:31:12,310 --> 01:31:10,159
but good things to say

2458
01:31:14,149 --> 01:31:12,320
and uh it's very encouraging he read the

2459
01:31:16,790 --> 01:31:14,159
book he said well it's too personal like

2460
01:31:19,030 --> 01:31:16,800
a lot of first novels you know you don't

2461
01:31:21,510 --> 01:31:19,040
have much experience so you write about

2462
01:31:23,510 --> 01:31:21,520
things that maybe aren't so commercial

2463
01:31:26,149 --> 01:31:23,520
he said it's not commercial but

2464
01:31:28,310 --> 01:31:26,159
you have the brains and the will

2465
01:31:29,189 --> 01:31:28,320
to be a fine novelist and i'll tell you

2466
01:31:31,910 --> 01:31:29,199
what

2467
01:31:32,629 --> 01:31:31,920
you write a different kind of book you

2468
01:31:34,950 --> 01:31:32,639
know

2469
01:31:35,990 --> 01:31:34,960
and uh one that that

2470
01:31:38,070 --> 01:31:36,000
that

2471
01:31:40,229 --> 01:31:38,080
people will be more interested in

2472
01:31:42,709 --> 01:31:40,239
and i'll help you get it published

2473
01:31:44,550 --> 01:31:42,719
more than that i move because i'm in

2474
01:31:47,189 --> 01:31:44,560
aspen i have a place i have a place in

2475
01:31:48,790 --> 01:31:47,199
uh in beverly hills and i i'm going to

2476
01:31:50,310 --> 01:31:48,800
be moving quite a bit probably over the

2477
01:31:51,430 --> 01:31:50,320
next couple years

2478
01:31:52,870 --> 01:31:51,440
i'll have

2479
01:31:54,870 --> 01:31:52,880
my secretary

2480
01:31:56,709 --> 01:31:54,880
keep you informed of where i'm living so

2481
01:31:58,870 --> 01:31:56,719
you can contact me

2482
01:32:00,709 --> 01:31:58,880
you don't get a better offer than that

2483
01:32:03,030 --> 01:32:00,719
so i was a policeman at the time after i

2484
01:32:04,310 --> 01:32:03,040
graduated then and and uh i was writing

2485
01:32:06,470 --> 01:32:04,320
this book

2486
01:32:08,390 --> 01:32:06,480
so i i went to the beverly hills hotel

2487
01:32:11,669 --> 01:32:08,400
during oscar week

2488
01:32:13,350 --> 01:32:11,679
to uh turn over the new manuscript

2489
01:32:16,870 --> 01:32:13,360
so i did

2490
01:32:18,470 --> 01:32:16,880
and uh there's a story behind that i

2491
01:32:19,590 --> 01:32:18,480
you know he had death threats so i was

2492
01:32:21,270 --> 01:32:19,600
supposed to meet him at the beverly

2493
01:32:22,870 --> 01:32:21,280
hills hotel and he

2494
01:32:25,669 --> 01:32:22,880
had moved out

2495
01:32:27,270 --> 01:32:25,679
so i panicked i had almost no money

2496
01:32:29,750 --> 01:32:27,280
but finally uh

2497
01:32:31,189 --> 01:32:29,760
i i uh somebody gave me an address one

2498
01:32:32,709 --> 01:32:31,199
of the hotel people gave me an address

2499
01:32:35,030 --> 01:32:32,719
and i met with him

2500
01:32:37,350 --> 01:32:35,040
uh he was true to his word he helped me

2501
01:32:40,790 --> 01:32:37,360
get my first book published

2502
01:32:42,709 --> 01:32:40,800
but we kept had a lifelong friendship

2503
01:32:44,310 --> 01:32:42,719
you know every that's nice so often i'd

2504
01:32:45,830 --> 01:32:44,320
write something and i'd show up on his

2505
01:32:47,750 --> 01:32:45,840
doorstep and he said what are you doing

2506
01:32:48,790 --> 01:32:47,760
here you know

2507
01:32:53,270 --> 01:32:48,800
so

2508
01:32:55,990 --> 01:32:53,280
and it was about uh a woman

2509
01:32:58,550 --> 01:32:56,000
in her name a pseudonym was christine

2510
01:33:01,510 --> 01:32:58,560
beecham and she was uh displayed all the

2511
01:33:03,510 --> 01:33:01,520
signs of demonic possession

2512
01:33:07,350 --> 01:33:03,520
and she was studied

2513
01:33:09,830 --> 01:33:07,360
in 1898 to 1901 by william james the

2514
01:33:12,310 --> 01:33:09,840
famous william james uh his brother was

2515
01:33:14,070 --> 01:33:12,320
henry james the famous author william

2516
01:33:16,470 --> 01:33:14,080
james was the first

2517
01:33:18,950 --> 01:33:16,480
uh professor in harvard medical school

2518
01:33:22,229 --> 01:33:18,960
to teach abnormal psychology

2519
01:33:25,830 --> 01:33:22,239
uh dr morton prince who is uh you know a

2520
01:33:28,870 --> 01:33:25,840
uh uh a peer of sigmund freud

2521
01:33:30,070 --> 01:33:28,880
a dr waterman from the waterman penn uh

2522
01:33:33,030 --> 01:33:30,080
fortune

2523
01:33:35,030 --> 01:33:33,040
and the clever clairvoyant leonora piper

2524
01:33:37,990 --> 01:33:35,040
and they studied uh her from different

2525
01:33:39,990 --> 01:33:38,000
angles for for three or four years

2526
01:33:42,310 --> 01:33:40,000
all the transcripts uh were at the

2527
01:33:44,149 --> 01:33:42,320
harvard medical school library bladdy

2528
01:33:47,750 --> 01:33:44,159
got me access to it

2529
01:33:52,149 --> 01:33:49,350
harrowing

2530
01:33:54,229 --> 01:33:52,159
uh and most incredible

2531
01:33:57,350 --> 01:33:54,239
story you'll ever read because it's

2532
01:33:59,990 --> 01:33:57,360
totally documented letters transcripts

2533
01:34:01,110 --> 01:34:00,000
uh photographs and i wrote this book

2534
01:34:04,470 --> 01:34:01,120
about it

2535
01:34:06,629 --> 01:34:04,480
and uh it took me a long long time to do

2536
01:34:08,950 --> 01:34:06,639
and it's called the unwelcome the

2537
01:34:10,470 --> 01:34:08,960
curious case of clara fowler it'll be

2538
01:34:13,030 --> 01:34:10,480
out in september

2539
01:34:15,990 --> 01:34:13,040
wow great well we have uh

2540
01:34:17,750 --> 01:34:16,000
we have someone on the line uh that is

2541
01:34:20,550 --> 01:34:17,760
going to be talking i'm sure about our

2542
01:34:22,950 --> 01:34:20,560
previous conversation yes and that is

2543
01:34:25,350 --> 01:34:22,960
rob from florida rob you're live on the

2544
01:34:27,350 --> 01:34:25,360
air welcome to the show

2545
01:34:29,110 --> 01:34:27,360
good evening martin it's great to speak

2546
01:34:31,590 --> 01:34:29,120
to you again last time i spoke to you i

2547
01:34:33,270 --> 01:34:31,600
was up in maine and now we are headed to

2548
01:34:35,110 --> 01:34:33,280
new mexico and arizona and our first

2549
01:34:37,430 --> 01:34:35,120
stop's going to be roswell and uh

2550
01:34:39,430 --> 01:34:37,440
looking forward never been out there and

2551
01:34:42,229 --> 01:34:39,440
uh

2552
01:34:44,149 --> 01:34:42,239
very interesting story

2553
01:34:46,550 --> 01:34:44,159
you mentioned i think this is the first

2554
01:34:49,910 --> 01:34:46,560
time i've ever heard this where these

2555
01:34:52,870 --> 01:34:49,920
beings discuss a superior force we call

2556
01:34:54,870 --> 01:34:52,880
it god they call it something else but

2557
01:34:57,669 --> 01:34:54,880
that that's fascinating can you expand

2558
01:35:00,149 --> 01:34:57,679
upon that just a bit because they

2559
01:35:01,990 --> 01:35:00,159
appeared to recognize or some kind of or

2560
01:35:03,750 --> 01:35:02,000
identify there's a superior force over

2561
01:35:05,590 --> 01:35:03,760
the whole universe

2562
01:35:08,310 --> 01:35:05,600
if you could expand on that it'd be very

2563
01:35:09,750 --> 01:35:08,320
interesting sure no i i'd be delighted

2564
01:35:12,070 --> 01:35:09,760
and this is one of the things that makes

2565
01:35:15,189 --> 01:35:12,080
this story sort of an enigma

2566
01:35:17,030 --> 01:35:15,199
the the way that um dawn

2567
01:35:19,510 --> 01:35:17,040
in in this sort of robotic voice i

2568
01:35:21,830 --> 01:35:19,520
talked almost being channeled it seemed

2569
01:35:23,270 --> 01:35:21,840
talked about the one supreme

2570
01:35:25,830 --> 01:35:23,280
and the one of the things that was

2571
01:35:27,350 --> 01:35:25,840
strange but

2572
01:35:29,590 --> 01:35:27,360
over the years

2573
01:35:30,629 --> 01:35:29,600
maybe isn't as strange as as i first

2574
01:35:33,030 --> 01:35:30,639
thought

2575
01:35:35,350 --> 01:35:33,040
they said that is the one supreme like a

2576
01:35:38,709 --> 01:35:35,360
leader of some kind and she says no it's

2577
01:35:39,750 --> 01:35:38,719
a god but very strong it's a god

2578
01:35:41,910 --> 01:35:39,760
and um

2579
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:41,920
what does the one supreme one he wants

2580
01:35:46,310 --> 01:35:44,400
to unite the five galaxies he talks

2581
01:35:47,270 --> 01:35:46,320
about five galaxies

2582
01:35:49,750 --> 01:35:47,280
um

2583
01:35:51,750 --> 01:35:49,760
the interesting thing too

2584
01:35:54,070 --> 01:35:51,760
he says

2585
01:35:56,870 --> 01:35:54,080
we are made in its image

2586
01:35:59,189 --> 01:35:56,880
but the others aren't meaning the the

2587
01:36:01,030 --> 01:35:59,199
beings that she encountered and why not

2588
01:36:02,870 --> 01:36:01,040
aren't

2589
01:36:05,990 --> 01:36:02,880
but humans are

2590
01:36:07,750 --> 01:36:06,000
and maybe it's because and she said

2591
01:36:08,830 --> 01:36:07,760
that they're exploring and want to know

2592
01:36:11,669 --> 01:36:08,840
about human

2593
01:36:14,070 --> 01:36:11,679
emotions and i wonder if the thing that

2594
01:36:17,430 --> 01:36:14,080
separates humans

2595
01:36:22,830 --> 01:36:17,440
from maybe any other species is the

2596
01:36:27,510 --> 01:36:25,270
fascinating now

2597
01:36:29,830 --> 01:36:27,520
you know this this you hear this on

2598
01:36:31,669 --> 01:36:29,840
these accounts these beings typically

2599
01:36:33,510 --> 01:36:31,679
don't have any emotions

2600
01:36:34,470 --> 01:36:33,520
yeah and we're of course

2601
01:36:36,870 --> 01:36:34,480
you know

2602
01:36:38,870 --> 01:36:36,880
brimming with emotions yeah that's for

2603
01:36:41,669 --> 01:36:38,880
sure sometimes for the good and

2604
01:36:44,550 --> 01:36:41,679
sometimes not for the good right

2605
01:36:47,669 --> 01:36:44,560
oh that's that that's for sure now when

2606
01:36:49,910 --> 01:36:47,679
you say galaxies did you equate that as

2607
01:36:52,149 --> 01:36:49,920
like our milky way galaxy and of course

2608
01:36:54,070 --> 01:36:52,159
there's a million galaxies across our

2609
01:36:56,790 --> 01:36:54,080
entire universe do you think you were

2610
01:36:58,870 --> 01:36:56,800
referring to our galaxies or the entire

2611
01:37:00,709 --> 01:36:58,880
universe

2612
01:37:02,390 --> 01:37:00,719
my guess would be

2613
01:37:03,669 --> 01:37:02,400
and again it's a guess no better than

2614
01:37:05,990 --> 01:37:03,679
yours

2615
01:37:07,750 --> 01:37:06,000
my impression was the entire universe

2616
01:37:09,669 --> 01:37:07,760
and this is what i was getting at a

2617
01:37:11,189 --> 01:37:09,679
little bit when i said my thinking has

2618
01:37:13,830 --> 01:37:11,199
changed when i first

2619
01:37:15,910 --> 01:37:13,840
i'm not a particularly religious guy so

2620
01:37:17,990 --> 01:37:15,920
just put it in that context i'm nothing

2621
01:37:19,430 --> 01:37:18,000
against religion but i'm not a very

2622
01:37:20,870 --> 01:37:19,440
religious fellow

2623
01:37:23,189 --> 01:37:20,880
but

2624
01:37:25,109 --> 01:37:23,199
originally and i heard a physicist an

2625
01:37:27,030 --> 01:37:25,119
astrophysicist talk about this not too

2626
01:37:29,669 --> 01:37:27,040
long ago maybe a month ago something

2627
01:37:30,790 --> 01:37:29,679
like that and it struck a chord with me

2628
01:37:34,310 --> 01:37:30,800
he said

2629
01:37:35,669 --> 01:37:34,320
originally meaning 15 years ago or so

2630
01:37:37,189 --> 01:37:35,679
people thought that there were many

2631
01:37:38,950 --> 01:37:37,199
earths you know that there were

2632
01:37:40,709 --> 01:37:38,960
thousands of earths maybe hundreds of

2633
01:37:42,070 --> 01:37:40,719
thousands of earths

2634
01:37:42,950 --> 01:37:42,080
and and

2635
01:37:44,550 --> 01:37:42,960
and

2636
01:37:46,310 --> 01:37:44,560
perhaps

2637
01:37:48,390 --> 01:37:46,320
human beings or something like human

2638
01:37:50,790 --> 01:37:48,400
beings that existed

2639
01:37:53,350 --> 01:37:50,800
but as they start to study it the

2640
01:37:54,790 --> 01:37:53,360
physicist said more and more the

2641
01:37:56,470 --> 01:37:54,800
uniqueness

2642
01:37:58,870 --> 01:37:56,480
of the earth

2643
01:38:02,470 --> 01:37:58,880
becomes the spotlight of things and the

2644
01:38:04,790 --> 01:38:02,480
uniqueness of human existence

2645
01:38:07,910 --> 01:38:04,800
may be a lot more rare

2646
01:38:09,750 --> 01:38:07,920
than we thought 15 years ago

2647
01:38:10,629 --> 01:38:09,760
so for example

2648
01:38:14,629 --> 01:38:10,639
um

2649
01:38:18,790 --> 01:38:17,750
nobel prize uh for the nobel prize in

2650
01:38:21,990 --> 01:38:18,800
science

2651
01:38:25,430 --> 01:38:22,000
for uh discovering the dna

2652
01:38:26,709 --> 01:38:25,440
he was the co-founder of the dna helix

2653
01:38:29,750 --> 01:38:26,719
and um

2654
01:38:31,750 --> 01:38:29,760
he said i i don't believe in evolution

2655
01:38:34,149 --> 01:38:31,760
i i believe that

2656
01:38:35,590 --> 01:38:34,159
for the human brain to be

2657
01:38:37,189 --> 01:38:35,600
created

2658
01:38:38,870 --> 01:38:37,199
and evolved over the course of 10

2659
01:38:40,709 --> 01:38:38,880
billion years or whatever

2660
01:38:43,189 --> 01:38:40,719
the time frame was

2661
01:38:46,390 --> 01:38:43,199
is it is as likely

2662
01:38:51,189 --> 01:38:46,400
as a tornado going through a junkyard

2663
01:38:53,350 --> 01:38:51,199
leaving behind a 747 jet fully assembled

2664
01:38:54,020 --> 01:38:53,360
that revs up takes off and flies to

2665
01:38:55,669 --> 01:38:54,030
europe

2666
01:38:56,629 --> 01:38:55,679
[Music]

2667
01:38:58,550 --> 01:38:56,639
he thinks

2668
01:39:00,390 --> 01:38:58,560
he believes in transpermia direct

2669
01:39:03,669 --> 01:39:00,400
transpermia and that we are the

2670
01:39:06,470 --> 01:39:03,679
descendants the dna came from other

2671
01:39:09,109 --> 01:39:06,480
another universe

2672
01:39:10,310 --> 01:39:09,119
well that's fascinating

2673
01:39:13,430 --> 01:39:10,320
because you know

2674
01:39:15,669 --> 01:39:13,440
we're the the human body is such a an

2675
01:39:17,669 --> 01:39:15,679
amazing organism when you think about it

2676
01:39:19,990 --> 01:39:17,679
i mean you see you know the the spine

2677
01:39:22,070 --> 01:39:20,000
these weight lifters lifting 700 pounds

2678
01:39:23,750 --> 01:39:22,080
i mean it is a little hard to believe

2679
01:39:26,870 --> 01:39:23,760
the lightning bolt in the primordial

2680
01:39:28,709 --> 01:39:26,880
suit made this incredibly perfect body

2681
01:39:29,990 --> 01:39:28,719
but well thank you so much i'm sure

2682
01:39:31,350 --> 01:39:30,000
there's others that like to ask

2683
01:39:33,430 --> 01:39:31,360
questions and uh

2684
01:39:35,109 --> 01:39:33,440
thank you for coming on thank you martin

2685
01:39:36,070 --> 01:39:35,119
thanks all right thank you very much for

2686
01:39:38,709 --> 01:39:36,080
the call

2687
01:39:42,870 --> 01:39:38,719
so uh yeah that was interesting and i

2688
01:39:45,430 --> 01:39:42,880
was sent this week a scientific paper

2689
01:39:47,270 --> 01:39:45,440
that kind of goes along with that

2690
01:39:48,470 --> 01:39:47,280
theory in a way that it looks like our

2691
01:39:50,629 --> 01:39:48,480
dna

2692
01:39:52,550 --> 01:39:50,639
uh may have been altered there's some

2693
01:39:55,030 --> 01:39:52,560
type of scientific paper

2694
01:39:57,189 --> 01:39:55,040
along the way and and i i have been

2695
01:39:59,590 --> 01:39:57,199
taught i've said a number of times on

2696
01:40:02,070 --> 01:39:59,600
this show that i have to think that you

2697
01:40:03,350 --> 01:40:02,080
know it is kind of unusual that we could

2698
01:40:05,030 --> 01:40:03,360
develop

2699
01:40:07,430 --> 01:40:05,040
um our brains

2700
01:40:11,030 --> 01:40:07,440
the way we did in such a quick fashion

2701
01:40:13,430 --> 01:40:11,040
of only 300 000 years or so or 150 000

2702
01:40:15,590 --> 01:40:13,440
years i mean for evolution to to make

2703
01:40:17,510 --> 01:40:15,600
that happen it just it seems like a big

2704
01:40:19,430 --> 01:40:17,520
jump to me but i mean yeah i'm not a

2705
01:40:21,350 --> 01:40:19,440
scientist i'm not an anthropomorphic but

2706
01:40:23,270 --> 01:40:21,360
what frick was and this is what frick

2707
01:40:25,270 --> 01:40:23,280
you know this was his field of study he

2708
01:40:26,629 --> 01:40:25,280
wrote a book called life

2709
01:40:28,790 --> 01:40:26,639
and that's where he put forward his

2710
01:40:30,950 --> 01:40:28,800
theory by the way it didn't go over well

2711
01:40:31,750 --> 01:40:30,960
a lot like john mack from harvard

2712
01:40:34,390 --> 01:40:31,760
yeah

2713
01:40:35,830 --> 01:40:34,400
so you know you become ostracized and uh

2714
01:40:37,430 --> 01:40:35,840
even though this was a guy that won the

2715
01:40:38,629 --> 01:40:37,440
nobel prize in science people

2716
01:40:41,350 --> 01:40:38,639
pooh-poohed

2717
01:40:43,430 --> 01:40:41,360
this idea of direct transpermia

2718
01:40:45,350 --> 01:40:43,440
you know kind of along the same lines of

2719
01:40:47,030 --> 01:40:45,360
our conversation tonight

2720
01:40:48,709 --> 01:40:47,040
i remember seeing i'm i'm trying to

2721
01:40:51,350 --> 01:40:48,719
remember he's a well-known

2722
01:40:54,070 --> 01:40:51,360
uh a harvard professor

2723
01:40:56,709 --> 01:40:54,080
he's talking about john mack and he says

2724
01:40:59,109 --> 01:40:56,719
yes it's okay for you to believe in the

2725
01:41:01,590 --> 01:40:59,119
spirits in the sky meaning religion but

2726
01:41:03,590 --> 01:41:01,600
he says but don't believe in aliens or

2727
01:41:07,750 --> 01:41:03,600
you'll really get in trouble yeah you

2728
01:41:09,510 --> 01:41:07,760
know um so that and and john mack didn't

2729
01:41:12,790 --> 01:41:09,520
actually say he was believing in aliens

2730
01:41:15,109 --> 01:41:12,800
but he did really take the uh uh

2731
01:41:16,950 --> 01:41:15,119
abduction the people he took them

2732
01:41:20,390 --> 01:41:16,960
serious at their word that they weren't

2733
01:41:21,910 --> 01:41:20,400
psychotic uh we have we have uh a

2734
01:41:24,629 --> 01:41:21,920
regular caller i haven't heard from him

2735
01:41:26,870 --> 01:41:24,639
in a while andy from connecticut you are

2736
01:41:29,270 --> 01:41:26,880
live on the show andy welcome

2737
01:41:32,229 --> 01:41:29,280
hi hi guys yeah um

2738
01:41:33,990 --> 01:41:32,239
i i always i always listen uh either

2739
01:41:35,590 --> 01:41:34,000
later or uh

2740
01:41:37,590 --> 01:41:35,600
live but don't comment because i'm still

2741
01:41:40,229 --> 01:41:37,600
working but uh

2742
01:41:43,030 --> 01:41:40,239
ron great show i read the book and i've

2743
01:41:46,790 --> 01:41:43,040
seen the uh i've seen the paranormal

2744
01:41:49,030 --> 01:41:46,800
witness uh episode a few times um i just

2745
01:41:51,109 --> 01:41:49,040
wanted your thoughts on you know from a

2746
01:41:53,750 --> 01:41:51,119
religious perspective

2747
01:41:58,709 --> 01:41:53,760
what what you think of the uh uh

2748
01:42:00,709 --> 01:41:58,719
hypnosis uh testimony from dawn about

2749
01:42:03,350 --> 01:42:00,719
the aliens saying that our planet is

2750
01:42:05,990 --> 01:42:03,360
special we were created in god's image

2751
01:42:08,229 --> 01:42:06,000
and they weren't or their planet wasn't

2752
01:42:10,790 --> 01:42:08,239
and that uh

2753
01:42:13,109 --> 01:42:10,800
you know what what you think of that um

2754
01:42:15,030 --> 01:42:13,119
i i've always thought that that

2755
01:42:17,430 --> 01:42:15,040
uh that fact or that i've had the

2756
01:42:19,669 --> 01:42:17,440
suspicion that that um

2757
01:42:22,870 --> 01:42:19,679
is why the aliens are so curious about

2758
01:42:25,510 --> 01:42:22,880
us because we we are very unique

2759
01:42:28,550 --> 01:42:25,520
and uh i'll take your answer off the air

2760
01:42:29,750 --> 01:42:28,560
here and let somebody else call in

2761
01:42:31,270 --> 01:42:29,760
thank you andy

2762
01:42:33,990 --> 01:42:31,280
yeah i mean people i guess

2763
01:42:35,990 --> 01:42:34,000
anthropomorphic is is the word you know

2764
01:42:37,350 --> 01:42:36,000
people tend to humanize things so you

2765
01:42:39,350 --> 01:42:37,360
know

2766
01:42:40,870 --> 01:42:39,360
you you are a human and you look at it

2767
01:42:43,669 --> 01:42:40,880
from a human point of view and so what

2768
01:42:44,470 --> 01:42:43,679
you tend to see is greatly influenced by

2769
01:42:46,149 --> 01:42:44,480
that

2770
01:42:50,310 --> 01:42:46,159
um

2771
01:42:51,430 --> 01:42:50,320
i think that like i said what resonated

2772
01:42:53,669 --> 01:42:51,440
with me

2773
01:42:55,109 --> 01:42:53,679
was this astrophysicist and it had

2774
01:42:57,990 --> 01:42:55,119
nothing to do with religion he was

2775
01:42:59,990 --> 01:42:58,000
talking about science and just the the

2776
01:43:02,310 --> 01:43:00,000
evolution the recent evolution of

2777
01:43:03,510 --> 01:43:02,320
people's thinking scientists thinking

2778
01:43:05,910 --> 01:43:03,520
about

2779
01:43:07,430 --> 01:43:05,920
you know at first was oh that there's a

2780
01:43:09,590 --> 01:43:07,440
you know all these places that have the

2781
01:43:10,790 --> 01:43:09,600
same conditions as earth and this could

2782
01:43:11,590 --> 01:43:10,800
happen

2783
01:43:14,149 --> 01:43:11,600
but

2784
01:43:17,109 --> 01:43:14,159
apparently it really isn't that way

2785
01:43:18,790 --> 01:43:17,119
that that a unique set of circumstances

2786
01:43:20,310 --> 01:43:18,800
it isn't just that there's water it

2787
01:43:22,470 --> 01:43:20,320
isn't just that there's oxygen or

2788
01:43:24,870 --> 01:43:22,480
whatever it might be that it isn't just

2789
01:43:27,270 --> 01:43:24,880
that there's carbon available it's it's

2790
01:43:29,830 --> 01:43:27,280
a a incredibly

2791
01:43:30,870 --> 01:43:29,840
unique set of circumstances coming

2792
01:43:33,510 --> 01:43:30,880
together

2793
01:43:36,229 --> 01:43:33,520
in a in a very specific way

2794
01:43:39,109 --> 01:43:36,239
to create a human life and particularly

2795
01:43:40,229 --> 01:43:39,119
the ability to reason and look into the

2796
01:43:42,870 --> 01:43:40,239
future

2797
01:43:45,910 --> 01:43:42,880
and uh and show emotions

2798
01:43:49,350 --> 01:43:45,920
uh emotions generally but particularly i

2799
01:43:52,310 --> 01:43:49,360
suppose emotions that go outside oneself

2800
01:43:54,629 --> 01:43:52,320
so for example if darwin is absolutely

2801
01:43:56,149 --> 01:43:54,639
right and everything's about survival

2802
01:43:59,189 --> 01:43:56,159
how do you explain

2803
01:44:01,910 --> 01:43:59,199
you know somebody sacrificing their life

2804
01:44:03,910 --> 01:44:01,920
for another person

2805
01:44:07,910 --> 01:44:03,920
that shouldn't happen

2806
01:44:09,910 --> 01:44:07,920
how do you explain a you know a soldier

2807
01:44:12,629 --> 01:44:09,920
protecting his platoon

2808
01:44:13,590 --> 01:44:12,639
uh a husband defending his family

2809
01:44:14,470 --> 01:44:13,600
um

2810
01:44:17,990 --> 01:44:14,480
uh

2811
01:44:22,070 --> 01:44:18,000
people doing things that that go way

2812
01:44:24,310 --> 01:44:22,080
outside of the idea of moving

2813
01:44:26,149 --> 01:44:24,320
of their whole logic being for them to

2814
01:44:28,310 --> 01:44:26,159
survive

2815
01:44:30,070 --> 01:44:28,320
so the idea of i don't know a mother

2816
01:44:32,070 --> 01:44:30,080
teresa or whatever

2817
01:44:34,709 --> 01:44:32,080
people that are humanitarians and that

2818
01:44:37,510 --> 01:44:34,719
that prefer giving to taking

2819
01:44:40,390 --> 01:44:37,520
how do you explain that uh if

2820
01:44:42,149 --> 01:44:40,400
if everything is about survival instinct

2821
01:44:44,229 --> 01:44:42,159
so clearly everything isn't about

2822
01:44:46,149 --> 01:44:44,239
survival instinct and this is a unique

2823
01:44:47,669 --> 01:44:46,159
set of experiences

2824
01:44:49,669 --> 01:44:47,679
and um

2825
01:44:52,629 --> 01:44:49,679
and maybe maybe

2826
01:44:55,750 --> 01:44:52,639
it's not so prevalent maybe there aren't

2827
01:44:57,830 --> 01:44:55,760
a million earths and a million

2828
01:44:58,950 --> 01:44:57,840
reasoning feeling

2829
01:45:00,229 --> 01:44:58,960
uh

2830
01:45:01,510 --> 01:45:00,239
beings

2831
01:45:03,830 --> 01:45:01,520
like us

2832
01:45:05,910 --> 01:45:03,840
and like i said it sounds self-centered

2833
01:45:07,590 --> 01:45:05,920
and very anthropomorphic to talk that

2834
01:45:09,109 --> 01:45:07,600
way

2835
01:45:11,189 --> 01:45:09,119
but maybe it's true

2836
01:45:14,310 --> 01:45:11,199
you know i understand that uh that the

2837
01:45:16,470 --> 01:45:14,320
earth goes around the sun not in reverse

2838
01:45:19,030 --> 01:45:16,480
yeah but nevertheless uh sometimes

2839
01:45:21,270 --> 01:45:19,040
things that that seem

2840
01:45:22,390 --> 01:45:21,280
not so likely turn out to be the answer

2841
01:45:23,750 --> 01:45:22,400
you know

2842
01:45:25,510 --> 01:45:23,760
right

2843
01:45:28,149 --> 01:45:25,520
very interesting we have eric on the

2844
01:45:30,790 --> 01:45:28,159
line from boston eric you are live on

2845
01:45:32,629 --> 01:45:30,800
the air welcome to the show

2846
01:45:33,910 --> 01:45:32,639
all right thanks martin

2847
01:45:41,590 --> 01:45:33,920
um

2848
01:45:45,030 --> 01:45:41,600
being

2849
01:45:48,950 --> 01:45:45,040
made in gum god's image and

2850
01:45:50,709 --> 01:45:48,960
am i right in the in that interpretation

2851
01:45:54,070 --> 01:45:50,719
is because

2852
01:45:56,629 --> 01:45:54,080
they're not being seen as um

2853
01:45:58,950 --> 01:45:56,639
positive uh that

2854
01:46:00,229 --> 01:45:58,960
the the the kind of the assumption is

2855
01:46:02,950 --> 01:46:00,239
made that

2856
01:46:05,030 --> 01:46:02,960
they don't have feelings they can't love

2857
01:46:06,950 --> 01:46:05,040
am i getting that wrong

2858
01:46:10,550 --> 01:46:06,960
well i mean what uh dawn says under

2859
01:46:12,790 --> 01:46:10,560
hypnosis is that is that they don't have

2860
01:46:15,270 --> 01:46:12,800
emotions like we do

2861
01:46:18,950 --> 01:46:15,280
and to them it's very curious and

2862
01:46:19,830 --> 01:46:18,960
something uh that warrants study

2863
01:46:25,669 --> 01:46:19,840
and

2864
01:46:27,590 --> 01:46:25,679
communion as they say right like in the

2865
01:46:29,109 --> 01:46:27,600
whitley striper sense if there's going

2866
01:46:32,470 --> 01:46:29,119
to be a communion they have to

2867
01:46:34,950 --> 01:46:32,480
understand human emotions and so that's

2868
01:46:36,390 --> 01:46:34,960
that's sort of a uh

2869
01:46:38,870 --> 01:46:36,400
you know you talk about studying

2870
01:46:40,550 --> 01:46:38,880
reproductive systems and studying the

2871
01:46:42,390 --> 01:46:40,560
physical aspects

2872
01:46:44,550 --> 01:46:42,400
what they're talking about is studying

2873
01:46:46,550 --> 01:46:44,560
the psychological aspects

2874
01:46:48,070 --> 01:46:46,560
because yeah they don't have emotions

2875
01:46:50,390 --> 01:46:48,080
like we do

2876
01:46:52,229 --> 01:46:50,400
this is a curiosity to them

2877
01:46:55,109 --> 01:46:52,239
and in order to

2878
01:46:57,430 --> 01:46:55,119
to communicate in a way that doesn't i

2879
01:46:59,510 --> 01:46:57,440
guess scare the hell out of everybody

2880
01:47:01,910 --> 01:46:59,520
they need to understand how to approach

2881
01:47:02,709 --> 01:47:01,920
this and i think that's uh i think

2882
01:47:05,030 --> 01:47:02,719
that's

2883
01:47:07,030 --> 01:47:05,040
the message that i got from what dawn

2884
01:47:10,149 --> 01:47:07,040
dawn was saying

2885
01:47:13,510 --> 01:47:10,159
yeah anything else eric i think

2886
01:47:14,709 --> 01:47:13,520
i i think um it's uh

2887
01:47:17,270 --> 01:47:14,719
i think it's

2888
01:47:19,990 --> 01:47:17,280
an interpretation on their part

2889
01:47:23,669 --> 01:47:20,000
that the they don't have those feelings

2890
01:47:24,629 --> 01:47:23,679
and stuff um and you know if i'm to go

2891
01:47:25,590 --> 01:47:24,639
with

2892
01:47:27,270 --> 01:47:25,600
who's

2893
01:47:29,830 --> 01:47:27,280
the um

2894
01:47:30,709 --> 01:47:29,840
the higher intelligence

2895
01:47:33,189 --> 01:47:30,719
um

2896
01:47:35,510 --> 01:47:33,199
i'd have to go with them the chances are

2897
01:47:38,229 --> 01:47:35,520
what people don't what people generally

2898
01:47:40,070 --> 01:47:38,239
don't seem to understand is that uh

2899
01:47:43,669 --> 01:47:40,080
extra um

2900
01:47:46,310 --> 01:47:43,679
extra terrestrial intelligence is

2901
01:47:47,590 --> 01:47:46,320
above and beyond our own

2902
01:47:51,270 --> 01:47:47,600
and so

2903
01:47:54,149 --> 01:47:51,280
um okay what i'd also like to know is

2904
01:47:57,030 --> 01:47:54,159
uh if you know the travis walton story

2905
01:47:58,950 --> 01:47:57,040
as years have gone by travis is much

2906
01:48:01,350 --> 01:47:58,960
more comfortable with saying you know it

2907
01:48:03,430 --> 01:48:01,360
was more like an ambulance call

2908
01:48:05,830 --> 01:48:03,440
and they smoked his life and they've got

2909
01:48:07,830 --> 01:48:05,840
more positive things to say about

2910
01:48:11,350 --> 01:48:07,840
do these people have they ever

2911
01:48:15,030 --> 01:48:11,360
considered that their interpretation

2912
01:48:18,070 --> 01:48:15,040
is why they were so fearful that on

2913
01:48:21,109 --> 01:48:18,080
other people there could be other people

2914
01:48:23,189 --> 01:48:21,119
given the situation might actually have

2915
01:48:25,750 --> 01:48:23,199
enjoyed it

2916
01:48:28,550 --> 01:48:25,760
yeah i know i i i take uh what you're

2917
01:48:30,790 --> 01:48:28,560
saying uh seriously i mean i think

2918
01:48:33,270 --> 01:48:30,800
intelligence clearly

2919
01:48:35,189 --> 01:48:33,280
we can't do what they can do

2920
01:48:37,109 --> 01:48:35,199
we're not showing up on their

2921
01:48:39,990 --> 01:48:37,119
planet we're not showing up where they

2922
01:48:41,990 --> 01:48:40,000
live but i think i think more than

2923
01:48:43,270 --> 01:48:42,000
anything i don't think that

2924
01:48:45,189 --> 01:48:43,280
that

2925
01:48:47,189 --> 01:48:45,199
it's necessarily an evil thing i mean

2926
01:48:48,709 --> 01:48:47,199
this is one way of interpreting it but

2927
01:48:49,910 --> 01:48:48,719
the other way of interpreting it look

2928
01:48:52,149 --> 01:48:49,920
what we do

2929
01:48:54,629 --> 01:48:52,159
to chimpanzees

2930
01:48:56,709 --> 01:48:54,639
or what scientists do to animals i mean

2931
01:48:58,310 --> 01:48:56,719
basically it isn't that they hate these

2932
01:49:00,470 --> 01:48:58,320
animals or they're trying to torment

2933
01:49:02,070 --> 01:49:00,480
them they're studying them and so there

2934
01:49:03,270 --> 01:49:02,080
are dissections there's things that you

2935
01:49:05,430 --> 01:49:03,280
do that are

2936
01:49:08,070 --> 01:49:05,440
you know are awful if you look at it

2937
01:49:09,590 --> 01:49:08,080
from the point of view of the animal or

2938
01:49:11,430 --> 01:49:09,600
the test subject

2939
01:49:13,669 --> 01:49:11,440
i think that

2940
01:49:15,910 --> 01:49:13,679
that that's more i mean i i would never

2941
01:49:17,830 --> 01:49:15,920
argue that that we're more intelligent

2942
01:49:19,270 --> 01:49:17,840
than these beings clearly that clearly

2943
01:49:21,189 --> 01:49:19,280
that's not

2944
01:49:24,390 --> 01:49:21,199
not true and not possible

2945
01:49:27,350 --> 01:49:24,400
but it is possible that we have a set of

2946
01:49:29,270 --> 01:49:27,360
uh experiences and maybe a set called

2947
01:49:31,030 --> 01:49:29,280
emotions feelings

2948
01:49:32,390 --> 01:49:31,040
that they don't have

2949
01:49:34,390 --> 01:49:32,400
i mean that that's

2950
01:49:36,470 --> 01:49:34,400
clearly possible as well

2951
01:49:39,189 --> 01:49:36,480
um i don't necessarily think they're

2952
01:49:40,550 --> 01:49:39,199
evil i think that they were scientists

2953
01:49:43,350 --> 01:49:40,560
okay

2954
01:49:45,990 --> 01:49:43,360
could it be that they have just as much

2955
01:49:49,430 --> 01:49:46,000
as emotion as we do

2956
01:49:50,950 --> 01:49:49,440
but they were absolutely perplexed with

2957
01:49:53,750 --> 01:49:50,960
the horror

2958
01:49:56,550 --> 01:49:53,760
the the emotions of horror in these

2959
01:49:57,910 --> 01:49:56,560
people and yes they became more they're

2960
01:49:58,870 --> 01:49:57,920
concerned

2961
01:50:01,669 --> 01:49:58,880
and

2962
01:50:02,790 --> 01:50:01,679
they were very interested in you know

2963
01:50:03,750 --> 01:50:02,800
why

2964
01:50:07,189 --> 01:50:03,760
this

2965
01:50:09,510 --> 01:50:07,199
um reaction of utter horror what is

2966
01:50:10,790 --> 01:50:09,520
going on here with these people that

2967
01:50:12,070 --> 01:50:10,800
they're like

2968
01:50:13,990 --> 01:50:12,080
that i mean that's a really that's

2969
01:50:16,790 --> 01:50:14,000
really an interesting point of view and

2970
01:50:18,149 --> 01:50:16,800
i think that's as likely as as any

2971
01:50:19,910 --> 01:50:18,159
take on it

2972
01:50:22,070 --> 01:50:19,920
thank you very much you know i i did

2973
01:50:23,430 --> 01:50:22,080
want to mention eric i don't claim to

2974
01:50:25,830 --> 01:50:23,440
know

2975
01:50:28,310 --> 01:50:25,840
exactly what this means i i don't i

2976
01:50:29,990 --> 01:50:28,320
don't know what it means i i look at it

2977
01:50:31,750 --> 01:50:30,000
as i mentioned it's like a sort of gem

2978
01:50:33,350 --> 01:50:31,760
you hold it up to the light

2979
01:50:34,870 --> 01:50:33,360
and you see what you see

2980
01:50:36,550 --> 01:50:34,880
and if you hold it from a particular

2981
01:50:38,229 --> 01:50:36,560
angle it looks one way you hold it from

2982
01:50:40,149 --> 01:50:38,239
another angle and it looks quite

2983
01:50:42,070 --> 01:50:40,159
different

2984
01:50:44,310 --> 01:50:42,080
do you think uh you know

2985
01:50:48,310 --> 01:50:44,320
one of the emotions i think of and one

2986
01:50:50,629 --> 01:50:48,320
of the words that seems to come up a lot

2987
01:50:53,589 --> 01:50:50,639
in these conversations with uh with

2988
01:50:55,990 --> 01:50:53,599
people is is is the emotion or

2989
01:50:58,550 --> 01:50:56,000
whatever you would call it of love

2990
01:50:59,589 --> 01:50:58,560
you know is love an evolutionary thing

2991
01:51:00,790 --> 01:50:59,599
so we

2992
01:51:02,950 --> 01:51:00,800
survive

2993
01:51:04,790 --> 01:51:02,960
or is it more than that you know i mean

2994
01:51:06,229 --> 01:51:04,800
i know it's kind of a philosophical

2995
01:51:08,709 --> 01:51:06,239
question i'm asking you but i'm

2996
01:51:10,390 --> 01:51:08,719
wondering if that was ever any part of

2997
01:51:13,910 --> 01:51:10,400
the regression

2998
01:51:15,830 --> 01:51:13,920
talk that happened that particular

2999
01:51:17,350 --> 01:51:15,840
thing

3000
01:51:18,870 --> 01:51:17,360
um

3001
01:51:20,870 --> 01:51:18,880
no

3002
01:51:23,589 --> 01:51:20,880
it wasn't didn't come up as something

3003
01:51:26,229 --> 01:51:23,599
like uh love that word never came up

3004
01:51:29,830 --> 01:51:26,239
emotions came up quite often feelings

3005
01:51:30,950 --> 01:51:29,840
came up quite often um but not love but

3006
01:51:33,430 --> 01:51:30,960
i i would

3007
01:51:35,109 --> 01:51:33,440
venture to say that in retrospect

3008
01:51:37,350 --> 01:51:35,119
what might have also been of great

3009
01:51:39,510 --> 01:51:37,360
interest to these beings is the love a

3010
01:51:41,350 --> 01:51:39,520
mother has for her kids

3011
01:51:43,830 --> 01:51:41,360
right because she was incredibly

3012
01:51:45,830 --> 01:51:43,840
concerned about the well-being of her

3013
01:51:48,550 --> 01:51:45,840
children more than herself

3014
01:51:51,109 --> 01:51:48,560
yes so if they were observing that

3015
01:51:53,750 --> 01:51:51,119
that would be perplexing probably maybe

3016
01:51:54,790 --> 01:51:53,760
not i don't know if what their evolution

3017
01:51:55,750 --> 01:51:54,800
would be

3018
01:51:57,750 --> 01:51:55,760
but uh

3019
01:52:00,229 --> 01:51:57,760
yeah here's an one more question and

3020
01:52:03,750 --> 01:52:00,239
we're just at the end here uh did any of

3021
01:52:06,070 --> 01:52:03,760
the alphabet agencies uh ever contact

3022
01:52:08,229 --> 01:52:06,080
elise or tom or don or steve whatever

3023
01:52:10,229 --> 01:52:08,239
they're gonna be called these days

3024
01:52:12,470 --> 01:52:10,239
um no no

3025
01:52:14,870 --> 01:52:12,480
how about any other people contact them

3026
01:52:16,950 --> 01:52:14,880
any investigators really you know other

3027
01:52:19,030 --> 01:52:16,960
than yourself

3028
01:52:20,229 --> 01:52:19,040
well really their their name was kept

3029
01:52:21,109 --> 01:52:20,239
kept uh

3030
01:52:23,109 --> 01:52:21,119
uh

3031
01:52:25,270 --> 01:52:23,119
you know they were using pseudonyms and

3032
01:52:27,270 --> 01:52:25,280
so so no one really could identify them

3033
01:52:29,910 --> 01:52:27,280
to to track them down if you're asking

3034
01:52:31,589 --> 01:52:29,920
about agencies the cia nsa or whatever

3035
01:52:35,030 --> 01:52:31,599
no the answer is no

3036
01:52:36,790 --> 01:52:35,040
yes yes excellent well uh one more time

3037
01:52:38,629 --> 01:52:36,800
if you would give the name of your book

3038
01:52:40,310 --> 01:52:38,639
that's due out this fall

3039
01:52:42,709 --> 01:52:40,320
yeah it's called the unwelcome

3040
01:52:44,790 --> 01:52:42,719
the curious case of clara fowler and of

3041
01:52:47,510 --> 01:52:44,800
course this is the mojave incident and

3042
01:52:49,430 --> 01:52:47,520
um it's available on amazon or wherever

3043
01:52:50,310 --> 01:52:49,440
yeah i have a website

3044
01:52:52,390 --> 01:52:50,320
ron

3045
01:52:54,550 --> 01:52:52,400
gilbert.com that's simple

3046
01:52:56,470 --> 01:52:54,560
well you know i didn't even find that so

3047
01:52:58,149 --> 01:52:56,480
i can't remember how we connected but i

3048
01:53:00,149 --> 01:52:58,159
will put that in the show notes and down

3049
01:53:01,990 --> 01:53:00,159
in the notes here below this video as

3050
01:53:03,669 --> 01:53:02,000
well thank you so much it's been a real

3051
01:53:06,149 --> 01:53:03,679
pleasure you've been a great guest

3052
01:53:07,830 --> 01:53:06,159
thank you martin a pleasure

3053
01:53:09,510 --> 01:53:07,840
all right take care

3054
01:53:12,310 --> 01:53:09,520
all right everyone as a reminder we'll

3055
01:53:13,430 --> 01:53:12,320
be back next week um with chris

3056
01:53:15,430 --> 01:53:13,440
lambright

3057
01:53:16,950 --> 01:53:15,440
and the following week i don't have any

3058
01:53:19,189 --> 01:53:16,960
of that up in front of me what's going

3059
01:53:20,790 --> 01:53:19,199
on but uh we have some great guests

3060
01:53:23,350 --> 01:53:20,800
coming along the way don't forget this

3061
01:53:25,510 --> 01:53:23,360
thursday night we have the jay allen

3062
01:53:27,430 --> 01:53:25,520
high nick's son paul heineck is going to

3063
01:53:29,990 --> 01:53:27,440
be on talking about

3064
01:53:32,070 --> 01:53:30,000
immortality within our reach which is a

3065
01:53:33,830 --> 01:53:32,080
real interesting i think a really

3066
01:53:35,830 --> 01:53:33,840
interesting topic thank you again

3067
01:53:37,210 --> 01:53:35,840
everyone and remember to keep your eyes

3068
01:53:48,280 --> 01:53:37,220
to the sky